Freedom of Speech: Where are you on this?

VS007 · Post by **VS007** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:09 pm

I support freedom of speech and have higher tolerance for its abuse.
But on the day of a funeral of a military personnel, a day of mourning for the family, a sad sad day for the parents, the religious zealots pick that moment and place for displaying offensive anti gay statements proclaiming this as a punishment from god for supporting gays in military. Its the worst kind of insensitive behavior and shows the religious zealots at its worst or shows their true color.

The lower court put ruled guilty on that church and put fines on them, which got overturned in higher and now its in the doors of Supreme Court. I wish these people simply disappear, but now that its gone upto Supreme Court and interpretation of the constitution comes into play,and the question is whether this is protected under Freedom of Speech?

Regretfully I have to agree that it does.
What say you?

VS007
----

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2789[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]2790[/ATTACH]
The court is hearing arguments Wednesday in the dispute between Albert Snyder of York, Pa., and members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The case pits Snyder's right to grieve privately against the church members' right to say what they want, no matter how offensive.
Westboro members, led by the Rev. Fred Phelps, have picketed many military funerals to make their point that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are punishment for Americans' immorality, including tolerance of homosexuality and abortion.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/06/military-funeral-protest-case_n_752310.html

boca · Post by **boca** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:27 pm

VS007;337247The lower court put ruled guilty on that church and put fines on them, which got overturned in higher and now its in the doors of Supreme Court. I wish these people simply disappear, but now that its gone upto Supreme Court and interpretation of the constitution comes into play,and the question is whether this is protected under Freedom of Speech?

Regretfully I have to agree that it does.
What say you?
[/quote]
+1. I agree.

boca · Post by **boca** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:32 pm

I was watching "POV - The Most Dangerous Man in America" on PBS last night. A first person account (Daniel Ellsberg, the whistle blower) of the Pentagon Papers that pitted the Government against the Fourth Estate in a precedent setting SC case on the Freedom of Speech.

http://www.pbs.org/pov/mostdangerousman/

Check the timing and don't miss it! It gives insight into the powers afforded to a select few in the executive branch to determine the destiny of many and how it could be abused under the premise of National Security.

An intriguing aspect to note was his friendship with Janaki Natarajan and Mahatma Gandhi's ideology of non-violence that played an important role in influencing Dan to come out with the truth behind the Vietnam War.

VS007 · Post by **VS007** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:47 pm

Yup, WhistleBlower Act + Freedom of Speech should also protect Wikileaks whistle blower who reveal the facts that contradicts what the political and military leaders tell us publicly about policies and extra judicial killings.

M V · Post by **M V** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:51 pm

Agree too that the freedom of speech supports it. Regretfully.
Don't want to hijack thread, but those who feel this is a case of 'Such acts are protected under the Freedom of Speech' but it is 'regretful', do they also feel similarly 'regretful' about the mosque issue? Do they wish the mosque builders would just go away?

(Assuming here that those who support freedom of speech for funeral picketing, will also support the Ground zero mosque being allowed).

indigoyogi · Post by **indigoyogi** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:57 pm

In a similar situation and if the shoe was in the other foot, are fringe groups at liberty to say anti-national slogans or burning of the flag on important national holidays in public spaces, preferably closer to those churches that are picketing these funerals? If not, why not?

Sarkar07 · Post by **Sarkar07** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:07 pm

Yes, the church's actions are and should be protected under the Freedom of Speech. As regards "insensitivity" I don't think much of it as it is highly subjective. There are many anti-religious people who say and do so many anti-religious things (e.g.protests when the pope is visiting) that may be offensive to the devout. I see this case as similar, not same of course, but opposite.

BTW, Is there a right to "private grieving", I mean how does the "grieving" get compromised by someone saying something negative about the dead? Does a party thrown by my neighbor if someone in my family dies lead to encroachment on my "right to grieve"? I or others may call him mean, but can I take him to court for that?

VS007 · Post by **VS007** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:08 pm

modus_vivendi;337308 those who feel this is a case of 'Such acts are protected under the Freedom of Speech' but it is 'regretful', do they also feel similarly 'regretful' about the mosque issue? Do they wish the mosque builders would just go away?

I would fall in that category. I would support their right to build as it comes under "freedom of worship" on private properties regretfully.
Regret for any religious structure built anywhere. That money and this one could have well spent on other needy causes.

PS: We have a mosque near our place, I would be lying through my teeth if I tell you a sense of discomfort does not creep inside me when I see bearded people with caps come out it.

VS007 · Post by **VS007** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:12 pm

Sarkar07;337314 I mean how does the "grieving" get compromised by someone saying something negative about the dead? Does a party thrown by my neighbor if someone in my family dies lead to encroachment on my "right to grieve"? I or others may call him mean, but can I take him to court for that?

A party to celebrate the death would offend anyone. And with emotions running so high, I am impressed that the father decided to knock the doors of the law rather than taking the law in his own hands. However I cant guarantee what I would do in his place. That bad. :(

M V · Post by **M V** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:15 pm

Sarkar07;337314...
BTW, Is there a right to "private grieving", I mean how does the "grieving" get compromised by someone saying something negative about the dead? Does a party thrown by my neighbor if someone in my family dies lead to encroachment on my "right to grieve"? I or others may call him mean, but can I take him to court for that?

It might depend on what the negative statement is and how pre-meditated. If a person dies, and neighbors comment that he was a good-for-nothing or womanizer, loud enough for the dead person's family to hear, that is one thing. Then, there is organized funeral picketing like done by the WBC (WestBoro Baptist Church), where they have a budget for protests, members travel thousands of miles to go picket at private funeral with big signs that announce the dead person's sexual orientation and more.

On a related note, picketing at funerals of celebrities, politicians somehow feels different from picketing private funerals of regular citizens. When the regular citizen whose funeral is being picketed is a fallen soldier, it does feel 'regrettable'.

-----
Added later: My post above is in response to the blue part: "How does the grieving get compromised by someone saying something negative about the dead. The family "can" take the picketers to court, but such picketing is protected under Freedom of Speech, as it should be, and the family will most likely lose.