How do atheists explain the migratory pattern of monarch butterflies?

Mastan Bhai · Post by **Mastan Bhai** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:38 am

Playing the devil's advocate, it would be interesting to hear atheist views about this. I am agnostic & ignorant about the subject, and hope to learn something from knowledgeable atheists (I rate you better than religious theists anyway). It would also be pleasant to see atheists admit to not having all the answers for a change, otherwise it makes you just as "faithful" (which is synonymous with insane and unyielding in my books) as the religious :)

Some background:
[QUOTE]

The monarch butterfly's northward migration every spring looks like the sort of poorly planned bullshit you expect from mass animal migrations, with hundreds of millions spreading out across North America, presumably wherever they damn well please.

In August, they fly back south, and things get spooky. First of all, there's the fact that all hundred million fly directly to the same tiny patch of trees in Mexico 1/100th the size of Manhattan's Central Park. So what? It's not like you can have too many butterflies, right?

Wrong.
But the truly baffling part is that monarch butterflies live only for a few months. That means the migration spans generations. Every August, hundreds of millions of butterflies wake up from caterpillardom and know how to find the exact patch of trees that their great-great-grandfathers left six months earlier. This would be like being born knowing exactly how to get to the home your great-great-grandfather was born in, and your mother never told you and you don't even know that he exists or what a great-great grandfather even is because you're a butterfly.

mn_op · Post by **mn_op** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:57 am

500 years ago, a beleiver would have asked an atheist "How do you explain the rain"? And atheist would not have had an answer.

Knowledge is infinite and you might assume that atheists are intelligent and beleivers are a bunch of idiots who know nothing. But thats not true. There are a lots of things that atehists do not know. Actually, what we know is infinitessimally smaller as compared to what we do not know.

Please quit treating atheists as Gods. They are not.
And for God's sake, use your weekends to check women and exploring new spots for drinking. Man!!!! This computer thingy has turned fine young men into low libido sissies who want to undertake intellectual debates on fine days such as today.

There are colorful butterflies in every mall in Mumbai and you are trying to find migratory patterns on Monarch butterfly? There is enough information on the internet to last a lifetime. Of a butterfly.

Mastan Bhai · Post by **Mastan Bhai** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:07 pm

mn_op;416821Please quit treating atheists as Gods. They are not.
And for God's sake, use your weekends to check women and exploring new spots for drinking. Man!!!! This computer thingy has turned fine young men into low libido sissies who want to undertake intellectual debates on fine days such as today.

There are colorful butterflies in every mall in Mumbai and you are trying to find migratory patterns on Monarch butterfly? There is enough information on the internet to last a lifetime. Of a butterfly.

Never said that atheists are infallible (to the contrary I find them to be rude and their faithful convictions about disbelief are just as strong and disconcerting as those of believers), just that they tend to be better informed and far more rational than the average religious nutjob. And thanks for the good advice but it's only just noon yet, and I had a lot to drink last night as well :P Besides, I don't commute or have any forced routine so everyday is like a Sunday for me.

As for libido, it's probably the alcohol and other downers that contribute to lowering it (still alarmingly distracting though). Though I often envy those who claim to be naturally asexual, but that deserves a thread of it's own...

Man · Post by **Man** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:58 pm

Mastan Bhai;416829Never said that atheists are infallible (to the contrary I find them to be rude and their faithful convictions about disbelief are just as strong and disconcerting as those of believers), just that they tend to be better informed and far more rational than the average religious nutjob. And thanks for the good advice but it's only just noon yet, and I had a lot to drink last night as well :P Besides, I don't commute or have any forced routine so everyday is like a Sunday for me.

As for libido, it's probably the alcohol and other downers that contribute to lowering it (still alarmingly distracting though). Though I often envy those who claim to be naturally asexual, but that deserves a thread of it's own...

mastan bahi vs mnop - irrevence central...this better live up to the hype.....too bad i have a packed weekend...would have loved to follow this live..lage raho guys...

lsvenkat · Post by **lsvenkat** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:10 pm

Mastan Bhai;416829Never said that atheists are infallible (to the contrary I find them to be rude and their faithful convictions about disbelief are just as strong and disconcerting as those of believers), just that they tend to be better informed and far more rational than the average religious nutjob. And thanks for the good advice but it's only just noon yet, and I had a lot to drink last night as well :P Besides, I don't commute or have any forced routine so everyday is like a Sunday for me.

As for libido, it's probably the alcohol and other downers that contribute to lowering it (still alarmingly distracting though). Though I often envy those who claim to be naturally asexual, but that deserves a thread of it's own...

I have a very interesting view point about atheists [by the way I am a believer]. Let me explain with an analogy

If I were to tell an Atheist hat there is rabbit with horns and 8 legs would he/she believe it especially if there is no proof through what we know i.e. Perception. Maximum he/she will argue for 5 minutes and then conclude that I am insane and not worth talking to, will probably start ignoring me. There will be no doubt in his/her mind nor strong feelings nor agitation about Rabbits with horns and 8 legs. Drawing a similar analogy to an atheist if he/she so strongly and beyond all doubt believes that there is NO GOD then he/she would take the stand of 'Rabbit with horns and 8 legs' and say it is nonsense and not argue about it or have strong feelings about it. On the other hand they have strong feelings which indicates that probably they have that 0.001% doubt that may be may be there is GOD. So in this sense no one is 100% atheist there is a small element of theism a nagging doubt which he wants to solve once and for all which is why he/she puts all the effort, all the arguments, all the logic, all the hypothesis just to satisfy to himself/herself that there is no GOD and remove that last trace of doubt.

Regards

Venkat

M V · Post by **M V** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:38 pm

>> If I were to tell an Atheist that there is rabbit with horns and 8 legs ....
Did you mean to say , "If I were to tell a theist

Also, could you possibly add diamond teeth to the rabbit?

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not sure if this and previous post are hijacks, but doesn't look like OP wants to discuss only monarch butterflies.

Admin1 · Post by **Admin1** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:57 pm

Deleted - not necessary.

indigoyogi · Post by **indigoyogi** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:03 pm

Club_Admin1;416871Member MastanBhai,

If you do not post a link to what you have quoted in post #1, this thread will get deleted.

Whenever quoting external sources if link is not provided, the posts may end up getting deleted.

So please post a link for what is within the quotes in post #1.

Text 'background' in that post is a link.

boca · Post by **boca** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:06 pm

Mastan Bhai;416819Playing the devil's advocate, it would be interesting to hear atheist views about this. I am agnostic & ignorant about the subject, and hope to learn something from knowledgeable atheists (I rate you better than religious theists anyway). It would also be pleasant to see atheists admit to not having all the answers for a change, otherwise it makes you just as "faithful" (which is synonymous with insane and unyielding in my books) as the religious :)[/quote]
Mastan_Bhai, when seeking knowledge, why worry about atheist views or otherwise? The Monarch Butterfly migration is being studied by scientists. You can search for "time-compensated (by circadian clock) sun-compass*", "genetic basis", and "molecular basis". It will lead you to some articles by scientists studying this fascinating migration.

* - Time-Compensated Solar Compass -> http://www.sumanasinc.com/webcontent/animations/content/solarcompass.html

Dr. Reppert's Lab at UMass -> http://reppertlab.org/ - his lab studies the biological basis of this migration.

Man · Post by **Man** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:59 pm

boca2blr;417081Mastan_Bhai, when seeking knowledge, why worry about atheist views or otherwise? The Monarch Butterfly migration is being studied by scientists. You can search for "time-compensated (by circadian clock) sun-compass*", "genetic basis", and "molecular basis". It will lead you to some articles by scientists studying this fascinating migration.

* - Time-Compensated Solar Compass -> http://www.sumanasinc.com/webcontent/animations/content/solarcompass.html

Dr. Reppert's Lab at UMass -> http://reppertlab.org/ - his lab studies the biological basis of this migration.

MB - in case you find that hard to understand let me translate "- I freaking got no clue" :)

j/k bocaji - thanks for the nice links...