r2i forum

1. At first, I'd like to know if there is a link to people who will be R2I in 2012 :))
If there is thread, pls direct me to it.
2. Second, I wanted to share my reasons to R2I here to get an unbiased opinion.
MY REASONS TO R2I:
- Extreme boredom of the mundane life here.
- Lived here for over 11 yrs and still do not feel "at home".
- Our social life is pretty dull here and at times scares me what I could possibly doing after my husband and I retire, kids are off to college:emcrook:
- My kids are growing up quick and a lot of times I feel like bringing them up the way I did, but hard to do so here, cus' kids "just dont get it"..atleast not the Indian bit:emcrook:
-I am of the opinion kids will be more social in India.
MY WORRIES:
My older daughter will be in the 7th grade and I have no clue if people even "think" of returning to India at this stage. Honestly speaking,I have no friends here who have gone back. I dont want to go back and find my kids struggling at school, languages etc. They do have some basics down on languages, that I teach at home, but that is it. My younger one is in Elementary so I am thinking it might be OK for her.
At the end of the day I dont want my kids to think Mom took us back as she was selfish. But the only truth I see here is, if "I am happy, I can keep my family happy".
Pls. suggest. Advance thanks!

return2bengaluru;405458- Extreme boredom of the mundane life here.

As opposed to mosquitoes, pollution, shoddy work ethics in India. Life can be boring in India too.
[quote]
- Lived here for over 11 yrs and still do not feel "at home".
[/quote]
True.
[quote]
- Our social life is pretty dull here and at times scares me what I could possibly doing after my husband and I retire, kids are off to college:emcrook:
[/quote]
In India too, old folks stay alone in cities. How do you say that your life will be better off in retirement in India? And, nothing is preventing you from retiring in India.
[quote]
- My kids are growing up quick and a lot of times I feel like bringing them up the way I did, but hard to do so here, cus' kids "just dont get it"..atleast not the Indian bit:emcrook:
[/quote]
True
[quote]
-I am of the opinion kids will be more social in India.
[/quote]
Maybe true. But, so what?
[quote]
MY WORRIES:
My older daughter will be in the 7th grade and I have no clue if people even "think" of returning to India at this stage. Honestly speaking,I have no friends here who have gone back. I dont want to go back and find my kids struggling at school, languages etc. They do have some basics down on languages, that I teach at home, but that is it. My younger one is in Elementary so I am thinking it might be OK for her.
At the end of the day I dont want my kids to think Mom took us back as she was selfish. But the only truth I see here is, if "I am happy, I can keep my family happy".
Pls. suggest. Advance thanks![/quote]
Yes. It will be hard on your elder kid at 7th grade.

At the end of the day, it is all in your mind. If your kids and husband are happy and if it is you who worries, then you should try some ways to alleviate your boredom and loneliness. If you want more socialization you can do here also. Since telephone rates are cheap you can frequently talk to folks in India.

The world is shrinking and India is also improving a lot in amenities. As adults you can move to India now or you can move to India after your retirement. But, for kids, high school education is very crucial. There is no room for experimenting because of the competition whether it is India or US. If you have a plan for your kids education in India, you can R2I. Otherwise, count your blessings, it is not that bad after all, if you make use of technology for entertainment, socializing.

Layman: thanks for your reply. I cannot agree with you on most of what you've said but then again, it is the way you look at it.

"R2I or not to R2I ". It is a very personal question; isn't it ?
If you are not working outside the home, and not have much contact with grownups on a daily basis, then life might seem to be mundane and boring.
[QUOTE]Our social life is pretty dull here and at times scares me what I could possibly doing after my husband and I retire
Honestly speaking,I have no friends here who have gone back. You worry too early !! There is time enough to worry about retiring after you stay here at least 25 years.
Who knows, may be you will get less boring friends who are staying here as well. Very often if you drive the children to sports activities, you can meet other parents and make friends. They do not all have to be desis, you know. Sometimes, non-desis can be very nice folks. In fact, some of my best friends are non-desis.
I am planning to retire here. After I retire, I am not planning to bug my kids. If they invite me I will visit; or not. If it would help you, and you have the time, do a worksheet exercise. In a column, list all the things that bother you about your existence. In the next column, list your ideal condition when you'd no longer be bothered. In the third column, to the best of your knowledge and world-view, write how you can get from column 1 condition to the column 2 condition, at least part way. For what it is worth, this exercise will get you thinking, occupy your time and may even be a revelation. Take as many days as you want to think and complete that worksheet. Then talk to your spouse about the activity you had been doing....or NOT.
If you decide what you are going to do, let us know, if that is OK.
There was an old thread about the TYPES of friends a stay-at-home-mom needs to make. If you are good at search and find, that would be a good read.

I totally understand how you feel as that is exactly how I feel !! But after making several trips to India, dealing with banks and some family members etc, I have come to the conclusion that we have indeed burnt our bridge and will not be able to go back and adjust there. This especially true if the kids are born and brought up in western countries.

What we long for when we are here, does not seem that great once you go there and stay for extended periods of time. Also India is also changing so rapidly that the kind of life we left behind is slowly disappearing. For example joint family system; this has practically disappeared in the cities. People catch up with their relatives maybe once or twice a year as everyone is leading busy lives. In fact, we felt like an imposition when we visited our close relatives as husband and wife have to take leave or make changes to their schedules to meet with us. Plus once we have left our shores we are no longer 'counted' in the relatives circle, although you can re-establish your connections if you move back.

I am generalising here but the kids there are no longer pure innocence. I was shocked when my own nephew of 10 years swearing using F word frequently ( of course, out of earshot of his parents). He attends one of the best disciplined schools in Chennai. I do not blame them as they are now exposed to western culture much more than we were exposed to. Youngsters are more open to the idea of dating etc. A friend who hails from Delhi once said " you can bring up your daughter better in Sydney than in Delhi". There is no point in returning for the sake of giving them proper Indian values and morals as these things are rapidly changing there.

All religious events are celebrated in a highly abbreviated manner such that even making of prasadams are outsourced!


As members such as Hayagreeva has described elsewhere in the forum, India is EXPENSIVE ! What we take for granted in the west, we have to pay a premium there.

If you are like me and missed the real estate boom in India, then it will be even more expensive for re-settlement.

As others have suggested, you can involve yourself in several activities in your free time. There are plenty of opportunities in US and in Australia to give kids an Indian upbringing, such as music and dance classes, religious and spiritual classes, learning of Indian languages. More than all of these, if the parents lead a life that reflects high morals and values, children will follow suit, never mind where they are brought up.

Their higher education is much easier and accessible here than in India where they are in for severe
competition with other kids. Your elder one will find it difficult to cope at least initially.

Hope this helps

Vanaja

vanaja;405489
What we long for when we are here, does not seem that great once you go there and stay for extended periods of time. Also India is also changing so rapidly that the kind of life we left behind is slowly disappearing. For example joint family system; this has practically disappeared in the cities.

I am not sure how old you are and where you were brought up in India. I am in my mid-30s and was brought up in a tier-2 city in India. Even during my childhood, none of my friends and acquaintances lived in a joint family system. At most, we all have only our paternal grand parents with us. And now also my son is seeing the same social fabric among his friends circle.

vanaja;405489
People catch up with their relatives maybe once or twice a year as everyone is leading busy lives.

This again may be a metro thing. In my tier-2 city, we meet our relatives (mostly siblings and cousins of me and wife) meet just about every weekend. We feel that having such a close extended family may be a bad thing because there is never a need to make new friends. All weekends are filled with family and childhood friends only. These are not parties but impromptu visits to the people's places.

vanaja;405489
In fact, we felt like an imposition when we visited our close relatives as husband and wife have to take leave or make changes to their schedules to meet with us.

Sure, this happens because you are a "guest" now and they have to shuffle their schedules to meet you. If you were to meet them on a weekend and have given them enough notice (about 2 weeks), then it would have become a more scheduled visit and hence may not look like "rearranging their schedules"

vanaja;405489
I am generalising here but the kids there are no longer pure innocence. I was shocked when my own nephew of 10 years swearing using F word frequently ( of course, out of earshot of his parents). He attends one of the best disciplined schools in Chennai. I do not blame them as they are now exposed to western culture much more than we were exposed to.

Yes, the language may now be English but even when we were kids, foul language (in mother tounge) among friends (not 10 years but more in early teens) is quite common. This is when we had zero exposure to media. The only TV Channel is Door Darshan. Kids now are just doing it in English and at a younger age.

vanaja;405489
Youngsters are more open to the idea of dating etc. A friend who hails from Delhi once said " you can bring up your daughter better in Sydney than in Delhi".

It depends a lot on what your view of "better" is. My sibling (from US) is visiting us now. My wife is feeding their young kids yesterday and the topic of "Treating Food as God" came up because my neice/nephew are picky eaters. This is a new concept to them. On the other side, we went to a five-star restaurant couple of days ago. Our kids were completely comfortable with both the Indian and the western menu. Our kids ate malai kofta, chinese Manchuria, Pizza and burger. Neice and Nephew could only eat pizza and burger. Similarly, our kids are fluently switching between multiple languages while neice and nephew are stuck with English only. Our kids could easily talk about the intricacies of Mahabharat and Harry Potter while neice & nephew can talk fluently only about Harry Potter. Our kids are excited both about Dusserah as well as Christmas while neice & nephew are only excited about Christmas.

For the current generation, because of India's increased integration into the global happenings, affluent kids raised in India have much better flexibility than kids raised in a mono-language, mono-culture world of western nations. For me, this was quite obvious when we visited US couple of months ago. Our kids blended so easily into the US system.

vanaja;405489
There is no point in returning for the sake of giving them proper Indian values and morals as these things are rapidly changing there.

Giving kids Indian values and morals are the primary responsibility of the Indian parents, no matter where they are located. Indian environment (outside the home) only makes the parents' job a little (or a lot more) easier in fulfilling that responsibility. When my kids see large Ganesh idols in preparation on the side of the highway, it is a lot more easier to talk about multiple things -- Upcoming Ganesh Chathurdhi, use of plaster of paris and its impact on environment, the previliged lives of our kids compared to similar aged kids working on those idols etc. All of this kind of talk is theoritically possible in Sydney too but for kids it would probably be too abstract and too distant from their snuggled, crispy clean environment.

And by "Morals and Values", if you mean sexual morals and values, I can tell you, Indian tier-2 cities are still much preferable to western cities. From the conservative dressing to the conservative thinking to the conservative abstinence, most kids here in college dare not to do anything that is probably done in junior high school in the west.

vanaja;405489
All religious events are celebrated in a highly abbreviated manner such that even making of prasadams are outsourced!

If it is an event such as Gruha-Pravesh or something else where you are inviting more than two dozen people, yes, it is quite common to do so. If it is a simple and private family pooja event, I don't think majority of the people are outsourcing the prasadam preparation. Yes, for some delicacies that are traditionally made on specific religious days, it is much easier to buy them than to put all the effort to make it for only 4 people. But that would not be Prasaadam.

vanaja;405489
As members such as Hayagreeva has described elsewhere in the forum, India is EXPENSIVE ! What we take for granted in the west, we have to pay a premium there.

Just like any emergening economy, products are much more expensive when compared to a developed nation but the services are dirt cheap.

vanaja;405489
If you are like me and missed the real estate boom in India, then it will be even more expensive for re-settlement.

True.

vanaja;405489
As others have suggested, you can involve yourself in several activities in your free time. There are plenty of opportunities in US and in Australia to give kids an Indian upbringing, such as music and dance classes, religious and spiritual classes, learning of Indian languages. More than all of these, if the parents lead a life that reflects high morals and values, children will follow suit, never mind where they are brought up.

If the goal is keeping yourself busy, there will be many many avenues. If the goal is to raise kids wth moral values, there are many better places than India. But if the goal is to raise them with "Indian-ness" (whatever that means to you), then India is still the best choice, if you can afford it.

vanaja;405489
Their higher education is much easier and accessible here than in India where they are in for severe
competition with other kids. Your elder one will find it difficult to cope at least initially.

Look around at most of us who made it successful in the west with our sarkaari education. Compare us to many of our colleagues who were raised in the west, who had the elusive "well-rounded education", access to the best colleges etc. You won't find much difference in the academic, carrer and financial success that we have acheived versus what they have acheived. This is true in every field. Raising kids in western socities does not offer them any additional benefit. It may help them feel as "natives" (even that is questionable) but beyond that, not much more. Education in India now is a lot more accessible and still a lot less expensive than the western higher education costs. Quality is acceptable as well. An undergrad student graduating today from an Indian private college can easily migrate to the west and integrate into the western society (research/job) without any trouble and within 5 years, there won't be much difference between a Sydney raised Indian and a Delhi raised Indian. The Delhi raised Indian will always view himself as Indian while the Syndey raised Indian-Australian have permanently lost his/her emotional connection to India because they can only see it as "my parents' country" and never as "My country".

Vizagdesi - You truly nailed it ! Appreciate your response. I think this is not just for OP but for lot of other folks in the similar situation.

Last sunday, I was in my daughters regular dance class and waiting to pick her up. I overheard/seen following dialogue.

Mom (on phone and handing it over to her 8-10 year old daughter): Hold on, she is here, hey preetha, come here and convey belated Birthday wishes.
Preetha: Belated B'day wishes
Mom: Say happy Raksha Bhandan also
Preetha: Happy Raksha Bhandan
Mom (getting the phone from daughter and talking over phone): See, I told you, she remembers you, of course.
Call over
Preetha: Who is that mommy?
Mom: Your class is almost ready, run
Preetha: by the way, what is raksha bandan ?
Mom: I will tell you in the evening beta.. we have raksha bandan in balavihar next week.. (I am sure she is not going to explain her)

Like Vizagdesi said, Indian environment (outside the home) only makes the parents' job a little (or a lot more) easier in fulfilling that responsibility.
We take it for granted. We think putting them in Balavihar, dance classes will teach them the indian culture and will give them the identity. But I am not really sure that serves the purpose.

vanaja;405489For example joint family system; this has practically disappeared in the cities.

Isnt this anyway what most want ? So then it should be considered good thing, isnt it ?

return2bengaluru;405458My older daughter will be in the 7th grade and I have no clue if people even "think" of returning to India at this stage. Honestly speaking,I have no friends here who have gone back. I dont want to go back and find my kids struggling at school, languages etc. They do have some basics down on languages, that I teach at home, but that is it. My younger one is in Elementary so I am thinking it might be OK for her.
At the end of the day I dont want my kids to think Mom took us back as she was selfish. But the only truth I see here is, if "I am happy, I can keep my family happy".
Pls. suggest. Advance thanks!

Honestly, you have missed the boat, and read the other poster vanaja's post and feel good that you havent lost anything. Yes, your daughter will be unhappy & think you dragged her for your selfish reasons only. That is the reality. If you still want to R2I, you cant be thinking like this trying to satisfy all, but have to be thick, and need to develop the atttitude, I know, I decide, you obey me, and dont speak a word.

return2bengaluru , not to discourage you but I agree with Srinpo.R2I with kid in 7th grade is little harder but again depends on kids also. There are families who go back in high school as well but they are exceptional cases than norm.
If you still want to try, how are your kids with Indianness in general*?
What is your husband stand on this?

* Definition of Indianness vay from people to people but just use your own yardsick to measure.