This may be an unusual thread and also may be little personal. You may want to answer generally or personal situation if you are comfortable as this is an anonymous forum anyway.
We all know capitalism rules the world. Capitalism is by far the only successful policy around the world which lifted the nations from poverty and also made them rich. Merit is valued and money is pumped into what is in demand. For e.g., a computer engineer today makes lot more than others and rightly so as he/she is in demand today. Basically socialism and communism where every person is paid the same is no where to be seen today.
In this thread, lets turn our attention to our own families. Should socialism/communism be followed in families ? I am not talking about your own family, kids but your parents, siblings, relatives etc. Lets talk about the case of yourself living with your family in a western country but your parents, siblings, relatives are living in India. Would you try to maintain their lifestyle same as yours ? What would you do if there is such an expectation ? You do have some responsibility for your parents but how much responsibility you have with your siblings particularly when they are married and have their families ?
There is still a big difference in quality of life between countries such as US and India. What is minimum here may be a very expensive luxury there still. Lot of this may be very personal as each individual may feel varying levels of obligations but sometimes you do ask yourself how much is enough. Once we take care of basic things like food and shelter, there is simply no limit what you can do when we are talking about luxuries.
Remember we come from a culture where the epics like Ramayana and Mahabharata teach selflessness when it comes to families. Fast forward to capitalistic cultures, where a parent would'nt even co-sign a car loan for their kids, parents are suggested to take care of their retirement first instead of kids education. :)
Socialism/Communism in Families
Socialism/Communism in Families
Communism would mandate transfers or the state would appropriate earnings and then distribute - there is no such mandate in extended families. What prevails is capitalism, where those who are more well off may voluntarily decide to help those who are less well off.
Socialism/Communism in Families
How many families back in India have realistic picture of life here ? How many of them think life here is a bed of roses ? How many of them have a realistic picture that life can be as happy or tough here compared to other places .. agreed we dont have to worry about daily nuances like power, water or air quality but they all come with a price and one has to worry about other aspects of life the same way like in any other country and may be more with no family support around.
Socialism/Communism in Families
anand1;48199How many families back in India have realistic picture of life here ? How many of them think life here is a bed of roses ? How many of them have a realistic picture that life can be as happy or tough here compared to other places .. agreed we dont have to worry about daily nuances like power, water or air quality but they all come with a price and one has to worry about other aspects of life the same way like in any other country and may be more with no family support around.[/quote]
One can explain - but nothing like a visit to the US. My parents in law and my mom understand the pluses and minuses of life in the US coz they have made visits.
At an informal desi gathering in the US, in my presence and the presence of my mother, the father of a young desi lady in the US talked about how difficult life was for his daughter, and the elderly father of one of my desi colleagues remarked "They have chosen to come and live here - they must face it", and I smiled and agreed - that is likely how my dad would have responded too. :)
Added Later
Am reminded of a tip that I got from my dad when I was in my early teens, when we were looking for a house to rent. He said words to the following effect:
This applies to many choices in life. We can list say 10 desirable attributes that we want before we begin our search, and prioritize them.
In our search, no feasible option will likely meet all 10 attributes satisfactorily. Typically Option A may meet 7 attributes, and not meet 3 while Option B may meet 7 attributes (different from the set met by A) and not meet 3 attributes and so on with other options.
We need to decide which 7 attributes are more important to us and which 3 attributes are least important or can be mitigated or blunted, and make our choice. Having made the choice, it helps not to fret about the 3 attributes that our choice does not meet (though it does not mean we shd deny that they are not met satisfactorily), and enjoy and make the most of the 7 attributes that our choice meets.
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My view is that so it is with life in the US versus India or anywhere else. For some, the right choice may be India and for others the US, and the right choice can change over time.
Socialism/Communism in Families
Bobus;48206Added Later
Am reminded of a tip that I got from my dad when I was in my early teens, when we were looking for a house to rent. He said words to the following effect:
This applies to many choices in life. We can list say 10 desirable attributes that we want before we begin our search, and prioritize them.
In our search, no feasible option will likely meet all 10 attributes satisfactorily. Typically Option A may meet 7 attributes, and not meet 3 while Option B may meet 7 attributes (different from the set met by A) and not meet 3 attributes and so on with other options.
We need to decide which 7 attributes are more important to us and which 3 attributes are least important or can be mitigated or blunted, and make our choice. Having made the choice, it helps not to fret about the 3 attributes that our choice does not meet (though it does not mean we shd deny that they are not met satisfactorily), and enjoy and make the most of the 7 attributes that our choice meets.
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My view is that so it is with life in the US versus India or anywhere else. For some, the right choice may be India and for others the US, and the right choice can change over time.[/quote]
Nicely Put! To make the equation more complex, the attributes change with time as well.
Regarding socialism in India, it is a fad. It is of the "it is OK if I lose one eye as long as my neighbor loses two" variety. This is where our crab mentality came from our great principle, "Let everyone go down, why one guy should escape?". There is enormous jealosy that is not shown directly but durected through back stabbing and talking bad things behind the back. Ramayan and Mahabharat do not espouse communism. Differentiation of man at birth is not communism. The characters in these epics were kings and royals fighting for power while common man was expensed with. The common man figures in only the count of casualties as a mere count. What Ramayan and Mahabharat made to Indians is to make them inert and blame everything on fate and god. Not taking ownership and shiftng the accountability to God and fate helped to relieve worries, at best. Regarding selflessness in family life in Mahabharat, I do not understand what you are talking about. Mahabharat is more promiscuous than even America. Kunti has Karna with son god and then she has 3 sons with Pandu. She keeps the Karna story a secret and he gets screwed because she throws him in the lower rung of the class system. Pandu himself has 2 wives. Draupati has 5 husbands. Bhima has a son Gatotkaja. Arjun has multiple wives. What is the family value and selflessness you are talking about? Maybe, the authors added some values on their own. I am not picking on Hinduism. There are holes in other relegions as well.
Added later:
Luxuries are not a must! Man can find happiness in many ways. You can find poor orphan children in a Calcuttta street happier than an US kid. Poor families are well knit and build a good support system among themselves. A capitalist finds ways to protect himself by his own means. All of them can live happily in their own ways.
Socialism/Communism in Families
Bobus, Good post. Yes a visit here by the families would certainly help get accurate picture of the real life other than what is portrayed in Indian movies.
Layman
When I talked of selflessness in Ramayana, Mahabharata, I was referring to the selflessness of Ram and his brothers towards their family and each other. Similarly in Mahabharata, it is the Pandava brothers who are so close knit and respectful to her mother that they follow their mother's orders literally even when she mistakenly said to "share" Draupadi without seeing what Arjun won in the competition. Obviously I was not referring to this particular aspect of Mahabharata so lets not hijack this thread :)
How much of the realization is coming in Indian families that someone is earning and living well because he/she put lot of hardwork to reach to that state and also to maintain that state. And if that someone is living in western countries, many of them also make certain painful compromises in their lives for their choice.
Layman
When I talked of selflessness in Ramayana, Mahabharata, I was referring to the selflessness of Ram and his brothers towards their family and each other. Similarly in Mahabharata, it is the Pandava brothers who are so close knit and respectful to her mother that they follow their mother's orders literally even when she mistakenly said to "share" Draupadi without seeing what Arjun won in the competition. Obviously I was not referring to this particular aspect of Mahabharata so lets not hijack this thread :)
How much of the realization is coming in Indian families that someone is earning and living well because he/she put lot of hardwork to reach to that state and also to maintain that state. And if that someone is living in western countries, many of them also make certain painful compromises in their lives for their choice.
Socialism/Communism in Families
I feel we need both Capitalism and Socialism co-existing together but applicable in a different context. Regarding our professional live's are concerned, we need Capitalism as capitalism only creates wealth based on reasonable fairness(Probably America's Professional Capitistic Life). However, in personal life, I am more for Socialism (Meaning living within our community(not caste) irrespective of income) which gives more importance to personal relationship based on true friendship, love and affection where sharing and caring uproots (Probably India's Social Life).
I want to combine both 'Capitalism' and 'Socialism' where we create wealth for society, wealth for ourself and share our wealth to have-nots in India (If I have enough resources:emwink: ). This I call as 'Compassionate Capitalism' a.k.a 'Social Capitalism'.
I want to combine both 'Capitalism' and 'Socialism' where we create wealth for society, wealth for ourself and share our wealth to have-nots in India (If I have enough resources:emwink: ). This I call as 'Compassionate Capitalism' a.k.a 'Social Capitalism'.
Socialism/Communism in Families
Indian Joint Family System as practised in the olden times was a prime example of Communism.
"From each according to his capability and to each according to his needs."
Families sometimes three generations used to live together. Each earning member or income from family assets would be handed over to the Patriarch/matriarch of the family. S/he would spend the money on the family. Clothes would be bought similar quality and quantity for each grandchild/child, irrespective of the number of children and individual earnings of a member. A common kitchen would provide food for every one, whether they are earning or not. Space would be shared out equally.
Of course there would be some disparity depending on the personal liking or disliking of an indivudual by the Patriarch/matriarch. Call it corruption!
I am neither advocating not decrying the system. Just making my observation.
"From each according to his capability and to each according to his needs."
Families sometimes three generations used to live together. Each earning member or income from family assets would be handed over to the Patriarch/matriarch of the family. S/he would spend the money on the family. Clothes would be bought similar quality and quantity for each grandchild/child, irrespective of the number of children and individual earnings of a member. A common kitchen would provide food for every one, whether they are earning or not. Space would be shared out equally.
Of course there would be some disparity depending on the personal liking or disliking of an indivudual by the Patriarch/matriarch. Call it corruption!
I am neither advocating not decrying the system. Just making my observation.
Socialism/Communism in Families
dbs
Yes, joint family system is a perfect example of socialism/communism. In modern times though, there are not many such families anymore. In many cases, even though every one lives in the same city, they still live in different houses. The question is do you still feel obligated to bring everyone in your family to the same lifestyle as you are ? Is it common to have such an expectation from the parents/siblings particularly when we are living here and they are living in India ?
For example, it is so common to have a SFH here for anyone as 90-100% is borrowed anyway but to have a similar house it could be very, very expensive in India particularly when the loan amounts are not that higher. You just simply cannot do it even if you want to. And there are insecurities in US lot more than in India, you may have to save for the rainy day lot more than in India. I am not sure whether the folks back in India really understand and appreciate the problems that we face here. What is portrayed there is that America is a heaven and money really grows on the trees.
Yes, joint family system is a perfect example of socialism/communism. In modern times though, there are not many such families anymore. In many cases, even though every one lives in the same city, they still live in different houses. The question is do you still feel obligated to bring everyone in your family to the same lifestyle as you are ? Is it common to have such an expectation from the parents/siblings particularly when we are living here and they are living in India ?
For example, it is so common to have a SFH here for anyone as 90-100% is borrowed anyway but to have a similar house it could be very, very expensive in India particularly when the loan amounts are not that higher. You just simply cannot do it even if you want to. And there are insecurities in US lot more than in India, you may have to save for the rainy day lot more than in India. I am not sure whether the folks back in India really understand and appreciate the problems that we face here. What is portrayed there is that America is a heaven and money really grows on the trees.
Socialism/Communism in Families
anand1;48324dbs
And there are insecurities in US lot more than in India, you may have to save for the rainy day lot more than in India.
I thought people would feel more secure in usa with social security, good children education support, no bribes, (the land of gold and honey!).
No, even in our family, we live separately, and fortunately, no sibling needs financial support from others. But we know that they are there and if need be, will stand by us. My sons live separately (uk and usa) and live according to their means individually.