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Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:13 am
by r2i_100
Well, here we are debating on if R2I makes sense.
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** This thread is not to bash India/US but to hear prospective from folks who have either R2Ied or have done some research on this front.
** Please don't start discussion on if one should impose career options on a kid, create a new thread if you want.
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- Talking to folks in India I gathered that with mushrooming colleges, getting admission to "XYZ" Engg/Medical college is piece of cake (if you have 5-6 lacks to spare for donations) so an average Joe can dream of being an Engineer/Doctor. Given the economic scene, at least for next 10 years, getting job looks easy with "XYZ" college degree . Also, what I have seen is:
"XYZ" Indian degree+ MS(US)=> good jobs in India or US
Here in US you need "aptitude", good SAT score, teacher's recommendation, AND $$$ to become Engineer/Doctor, plus getting a job after "XYZ" US university may be hard.
So, does it make sense to R2I if your kid is "average" and you want him to be Engineer/Doctor (typical Indian mentality)?
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:08 am
by Bobus
Can you give an example of an XYZ engineering college in India and a XYZ university in the US to illustrate what you have in mind? Then the comparison will be concrete.
Many "engineers" from India are now like BAs and B.Coms. Sooner or later the market will realize their worth or rather the lack of it.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:12 am
by cool_r2i
OP,
Any XYZ college may not do any good in the long run. It may not even fetch a job in a good company ( - again XYZ company may not pay well -). Some of the so called 'mushrooming' colleges in India are also known for their pathetic infrastructure and known for useless facilities for study. That kind of college can make an average student to become below-average or worse than that. Many of my senior colleagues are trying to find ways to send their kids to US for under grad studies because of this 'mushrooming' effect.
Again, I am not comparing US with India. There are many good colleges in India even today and there is no second word about their quality of education. But, any XYZ college may not be a good option even for an average student.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:14 am
by r2i_100
Bobus;26550Can you give an example of an XYZ engineering college in India and a XYZ university in the US to illustrate what you have in mind? Then the comparison will be concrete.
Many "engineers" from India are now like BAs and B.Coms. Sooner or later the market will realize their worth or rather the lack of it.[/quote]
*Most* of pvt engg colleges in Bangalore except for 4-5, fall under my "XYZ" catagories.
*Many* of the state universities in US: many from here espicially which are in smaller cities/towns http://www.calstate.edu/search_find/campus.shtml would fall under my "XYZ" catagories.
I donot see market in India saturating for next few years.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:22 am
by Bobus
There are many good colleges in India even today and there is no second word about their quality of education.
Good educational institutions in India derive their reputation primarily from their high selectivity in student intake (input). As far as throughput (quality of education imparted during the years spent in the institution) is concerned, there are three components:
(a) How demanding / challenging the courses are.
(b) How much do students learn from each other.
(c) What is the quality of faculty and courses beyond (a).
The top Indian institutions (non-medical - I know little about medical schools) are probably good in (a) and (b). As far as (c) is concerned, they pale in comparison to even the 100th ranked US university. The institutions I am speaking about are - IITs, IISc Bangalore, IIMs, National School of Law B'lore, Delhi School of Economics and Indian Statistical Institute - please feel free to let me know if I have missed any "premier" non-medical schools in India. Neverthless many Indians gloat about these institutions - to me it appears they are like frogs in a well or living in a fool's paradise. Just in case someone wonders whether my post is a case of sour grapes, let me state that I have been a student at two of the institutions mentioned above.
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#4:
Please pick one each from the two lists, preferably ones that have an informative web site.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:46 am
by restlessdesi
#1,
I think the theory of R2i ing for kids' education sake is flawed. One can go on and on about the pros and cons of the childs education in India such as
- how much of a difference does a big institute label (iit etc.) eventually make in the professional development of an individual after getting that 1st job
- isn't practical experience more important then grades/schools ?
- how much difference does the us education (access to better resources) make in problem solving skills of an individual? Does it have a direct effect on the career of an individual? How about the personal development of the person?
- why would u r2i for your kids' sake when chances are that the kid might go to a different city to study?
- how much control do you have on your childs career/choices? would the child end up in NASA if you were in US? would the child become a beach bum instead?
- wouldnt it suck if you r2i based on perceived advantages for your childs education/career prospects (typical indian mentality for eng. doctor as u mentioned) and the child realizes that his calling is to be a rock star or studying the mating habits of great white sharks?
Just playing the devils advocate...r2i for the right reasons...for yourself...the kids...they will take care of themselves...they came to the planet with their own destinies..
My 2 cents.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:48 pm
by Mel
Bobus;26565
Good educational institutions in India derive their reputation primarily from their high selectivity in student intake (input). [/quote]
Bobus, isn't this the same with institutions anywhere, even in the US. Like MIT will not admit some one with a low gpa and low SAT/GRE scores, similarly IITs and IIMs have that stringent requirement. In Mumbai, "Agarwal classes" are considered (or used to be in my times) the best coaching classes for 12th standard. However, they were very selective in their admission process, picking only students with extremely high Maths/Science marks in the 10th. Naturally every one including me thought, obviously if they admit only "good" students, naturally their results will be good. Only when I was in the 12th and went to this classes did I understand that they were actually good. The profs and the teaching system did make a difference. Similarly, IITs and IIMs are the best institutes in India, but they cannot give admission to a few lakhs every year, so they have to limit admission. I look at it as simple demand and supply.
Now I do agree with you that in general US univs have better infrastructure, etc than Indian univs. But to get to the best US univ you still have to be in the top 5 or 10% of your class.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:52 pm
by Bobus
#7:
High selectivity in student intake helps attain a high quality student input. Yes, the sought after institutions anywhere can afford that. That is a plus for any institution, not a negative.
But an institution cannot rest on merely ensuring high quality student input. What distinghishes the institution is the quality of throughput - what do they do with the students during the years the student spends in the institution.
Apart from facilities (physical infrastructure), a very key ingredient of throughput is quality of faculty - and it is here that top (so called "premier")Indian institutions pale in comparison to the US institutions.
The point in #5 was that apart from high quality student input, top Indian institutions have little to write home about. As for the non-top and the general XYZ junta college, the less said the better.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:42 pm
by sksaxena
#1
One thing is sure if you want your kid to be engineer or Doctor, it is easy/cheaper to get admission in India. But the question is what is that worth?
Today economic scene is good and most of them are getting job, but do you see this trend continue?
BE is becoming like BSc and may not hold much value in few years.
Why do you think "XYZ" college option is better than "XYZ" US university, i think it is other wise. As pointed above even 100th rank US university has better 'education" than some of the top Indian colleges.
Kid's Career and R2I
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:42 pm
by Desi_by_Nature
So, does it make sense to R2I if your kid is "average" and you want him to be Engineer/Doctor (typical Indian mentality)?
No kid is "average". Everyone is good at something. You must encourage your kid to find what he/she is good at and enjoys doing and guide your kid in that direction.
Do you think if your kid has no aptitude/interest in becoming an engineer or a doctor and gets into a mediocre college and lands up a job anyway - will he/she be happy for the rest of his/her life?
Most of us here became doctors and engineers by circumstance and not by choice. Then everyone was getting on board to the US - so we got on too. Now everyone wants to go back to India so we want to go back too. What have we learnt from our experience? Nothing! We want to push our kids into the same rat race.
Seriously, we need to get out of that engineer/doctor mentality and move towards a more global outlook for the sake of future generations. Sometimes I feel India that is progressing much faster than even it's educated people are.
The IT industry has brought in a lot of money in India - but that doesnt mean everyone needs to get into IT to make a good career. That money eventually flows into the whole economy and all sectors benefit. People in India now have more money spend more on arts and entertainment - so there is a lot of scope for artists, musicians, performers. People in India now dine out more often - so there is a lot of scope for people with good culinary skills, restauranters, etc. I mean there are so many more good career opportunities in India now that so far people have been afraid to explore. This is infact a great time to encourage the new generation to do what they really want to do.