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Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:49 am
by Member_10949
Hi,


Background: We R2I-ed in Jan 2009 with almost 2-year old daughter who is now 7. Settled down in Bangalore, worked for MNC and an e-commerce startup, had good fun with parents and extended family (they are not in Bangalore) as well. Early this year, we had our second kid - son. All of us are Indian citizens except our daughter who is USC.


Recently my company offered me a transfer to US - bay area on L1-A. I am thinking of taking it up, primarily because that can potentially put both of my kids at level-playing field - right now one is USC and other is INC - if we continue being there for about 6 years.


So positives for moving to US:

[LIST=1]
  • Convert L1-A to GC in 6-9 months, get USC for all of us in about 6 years time - has obvious long-term benefits of SS, medicare, freedom of movement, etc.
  • I am in software product company, so will also have good career options that I may leverage to come back to India again later.
  • Wife will have better options to work from home or part-time. Such options are almost zero in India, or they pay peanuts. She can continue her work, or will have better career options when she is ready to work full time later in India.
  • Daughter will have good elementary school and middle school experience - there are threads that talk about it.
  • Parents are old but not that old - father (66) and father-in law (62), mother (57) and mother-in law (57). By the time we come back, they will still be in early 70s, and 60s. Right now, they can also travel to bay area to be with us, and travel around the area.
    [/LIST]



    But keep second guessing myself because of the following points.

    [LIST=1]
  • Career - missing out on India-shining boom period - 6 years is a long time! It feels like going against the tide, when lot of action is happening in India.
  • Daughter will have to start 9th std (or 8th std if we optimize) when we come back. From what I have read on forums, language is the biggest problem - but we can keep her up-to-date via Chinmaya mission classes, home schooling on Hindi, etc. That being said, she might still hate her Indian school at that time for other reasons - culture, hygiene, academic pressure, etc.
  • There is fear that we may never be able to come back again - too much disruption for kids - primarily my elder daughter.
  • Possibility of not much social life, loneliness etc that we ran away from in the first place in 2009. However, people tell us that it was East coast last time - Bay area is a completely different story, lots of desis in apartments, festivals, etc.
  • Parents can visit us multiple times a year in Bangalore, but that won't happen in the US. So, less interaction of my kids with their grandparents. However, we can try to minimise this by visiting India every year, and also asking grandparents to visit us at least once every two years.
  • We took great pains in 2013 to move-in and setup our house in Bangalore - feel settled for the first time in last 6 years. Giving it up for rent is turning out to be quite emotional for us.
    [/LIST]


    As you can see, the dilemma is in three ways - 1) long term benefit vs short term pains, 2) fear of missing out on extended family time and India-shining period, 3) possibility that things may not turn out for us the way we plan for 6 years later.


    I am looking for ways how to approach my decision making, from people who have been through at least some of these factors. This is turning out to be quite complex, and one of the most difficult decisions I have made so far.


    Thanks for all the help!!

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:51 pm
    by Dicky_Bird
    You have put very valid points and in details,The only way out from this situation is to bring the list down to 1-2 factors without which you cannot survive/must have.That might help with decision.for example Your move to US will provide chance for your Son to become US citizen could be one reason where by staying in India its not possible till you think your Son when grows up will be able to come for studies or work on his own.Good Luck!!

    [/Quote]=Member_10949;588741]Hi,Background: We R2I-ed in Jan 2009 with almost 2-year old daughter who is now 7. Settled down in Bangalore, worked for MNC and an e-commerce startup, had good fun with parents and extended family (they are not in Bangalore) as well. Early this year, we had our second kid - son. All of us are Indian citizens except our daughter who is USC.Recently my company offered me a transfer to US - bay area on L1-A. I am thinking of taking it up, primarily because that can potentially put both of my kids at level-playing field - right now one is USC and other is INC - if we continue being there for about 6 years.So positives for moving to US:
    [LIST=1]
  • Convert L1-A to GC in 6-9 months, get USC for all of us in about 6 years time - has obvious long-term benefits of SS, medicare, freedom of movement, etc.
  • I am in software product company, so will also have good career options that I may leverage to come back to India again later.
  • Wife will have better options to work from home or part-time. Such options are almost zero in India, or they pay peanuts. She can continue her work, or will have better career options when she is ready to work full time later in India.
  • Daughter will have good elementary school and middle school experience - there are threads that talk about it.
  • Parents are old but not that old - father (66) and father-in law (62), mother (57) and mother-in law (57). By the time we come back, they will still be in early 70s, and 60s. Right now, they can also travel to bay area to be with us, and travel around the area.
    [/LIST]
    But keep second guessing myself because of the following points.
    [LIST=1]
  • Career - missing out on India-shining boom period - 6 years is a long time! It feels like going against the tide, when lot of action is happening in India.
  • Daughter will have to start 9th std (or 8th std if we optimize) when we come back. From what I have read on forums, language is the biggest problem - but we can keep her up-to-date via Chinmaya mission classes, home schooling on Hindi, etc. That being said, she might still hate her Indian school at that time for other reasons - culture, hygiene, academic pressure, etc.
  • There is fear that we may never be able to come back again - too much disruption for kids - primarily my elder daughter.
  • Possibility of not much social life, loneliness etc that we ran away from in the first place in 2009. However, people tell us that it was East coast last time - Bay area is a completely different story, lots of desis in apartments, festivals, etc.
  • Parents can visit us multiple times a year in Bangalore, but that won't happen in the US. So, less interaction of my kids with their grandparents. However, we can try to minimise this by visiting India every year, and also asking grandparents to visit us at least once every two years.
  • We took great pains in 2013 to move-in and setup our house in Bangalore - feel settled for the first time in last 6 years. Giving it up for rent is turning out to be quite emotional for us.
    [/LIST]
    As you can see, the dilemma is in three ways - 1) long term benefit vs short term pains, 2) fear of missing out on extended family time and India-shining period, 3) possibility that things may not turn out for us the way we plan for 6 years later.I am looking for ways how to approach my decision making, from people who have been through at least some of these factors. This is turning out to be quite complex, and one of the most difficult decisions I have made so far.Thanks for all the help!!

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:10 pm
    by garamchai2go
    My advice (which I do not have much rights, because I am unable to r2i) is don't make same mistake again. Let kids grow / get educated in India, and then do any experiments. You kids will be like you and most importantly Indian. Once they grow they are also free to work anywhere but atleast you will not be confused.

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:31 am
    by VS007
    Indeed a good dilemma!

    Few points to consider:
    1. After six years you elder one would be 13 and would be more used to American way of schooling and will resist returning back. There are lot of anecdotal evidences to back that out. One of my old Wipro account manager came to US for a short term stint of 3 years. After two years his daughter pleaded and begged not to return. And he joined the GC bandwagon.

    2. As you may know, Bay area is expensive. However if your job profile leads to promising stock options or significantly higher pay band (200K+ as an example),then maybe its worth it.

    3. US Passport: Ten years back this would have been a no-brainer. With India rising and more importantly we moving towards a global world, I dont think this will matter much in a decade. We are moving towards a globally linked world and it maybe economical to finish education in India or Singapore or one of the American ones in middle east.

    4. If life is good in bangalore and everyone is happy there - Applecart theory.

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:41 am
    by techynt
    VS007;588814Indeed a good dilemma!

    Few points to consider:
    1. After six years you elder one would be 13 and would be more used to American way of schooling and will resist returning back. There are lot of anecdotal evidences to back that out. One of my old Wipro account manager came to US for a short term stint of 3 years. After two years his daughter pleaded and begged not to return. And he joined the GC bandwagon.

    2. As you may know, Bay area is expensive. However if your job profile leads to promising stock options or significantly higher pay band (200K+ as an example),then maybe its worth it.

    3. US Passport: Ten years back this would have been a no-brainer. With India rising and more importantly we moving towards a global world, I dont think this will matter much in a decade. We are moving towards a globally linked world and it maybe economical to finish education in India or Singapore or one of the American ones in middle east.

    4. If life is good in bangalore and everyone is happy there - Applecart theory.

    Personally, I feel that in ten years India maybe much more competitive place in terms of jobs/homes/resources.

    Its just about numbers, the people going to college has been increasing leaps and bounds. 100-300 million grads looking for white collar jobs is not going to be fun.

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:45 pm
    by suba
    OP, you have nicely laid out the positives and negatives of R2Aing. IMO, the negatives completely outweigh the positives. Everything you mentioned under the negatives are very true. So my suggestion is to not to rock the boat and instead enjoy the life in India!

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:22 am
    by VS007
    techynt;588816Personally, I feel that in ten years India maybe much more competitive place in terms of jobs/homes/resources.

    Its just about numbers, the people going to college has been increasing leaps and bounds. 100-300 million grads looking for white collar jobs is not going to be fun.


    You have a point there.
    The same would be true of US also with growing outsourcing, only jobs remaining in US would be where personal interaction in required like medicine and very high end of everything - tech jobs, finance, financial engineering. Most of the middle jobs would be outsourced or there would be tremendous wage pressure due to immigration.

    With so many people rushing through the high priced college system, doubtful if there will be enough jobs here too!

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:40 am
    by mate4all
    I would say... Don't rock the boat unless extra $$'s or USC will improve your current life DRASTICALLY.

    Go for it.. if you have
    Huge home loan,
    Large debt to pay,
    Looking at big expense in near future (3-5 yr)

    $$'s saved Vs. missing those years away from your family... are you sure?

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:42 am
    by Sid
    Don't do it man... Grass looks greener on the other side. There are no festivals going on in Bay Area apartments. You would be lucky to know your neighbor, much less celebrate Diwali with them. Your cramped 2 bedroom apt will cost you around $2800 plus, and visiting grandparents would be stuck all day in that matchbox of an apartment, or roam around in public buses trying to find a place to spend the day.

    There is nothing great in a USC, just more tax liability. If someone would want to spend their rest of the life in US, then taking up the tax liability is understandable. But in your case, why do you want to sacrifice the rest of your life for the sake of your kid?

    There is however an alternate reality in Bay Area. If you have an annual household income of 300k plus, if you can buy a 2Million SFH or rent it for $5000 a month, if you have a working spouse, if you have an asset base of a million dollars, and if you have 8-10 close friends from India (perhaps classmates) (and wife has hers too), and if you can easily spend a month a year in India on vacations (apart from the usual Europe summer stint), then YES R2A to Bay Area would be ok for your family. but then don't keep any hopes of a future R2I, as by that point you would be a world citizen. You would perhaps want to retire to the place where your kids might land up - Singapore, Dubai, London, or New York.

    Dilemma - R2A or not after 6 years of R2I (and again R2I in 2020)

    Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:46 am
    by vizagdesi
    Here is a contrarian view from a fellow R2Ier. I have R2Ied nearly 8 years ago and we have been visiting US at least every two years for summer vacations.

    Where do you want to see your children lead their adult lives?
    If it is US, don't you want your children to feel "at home base" in the US when they are living there as adults?
    Does it make sense to give them a future of confusion (R2I or LIA) that you went through once and going through again now and then again in six years?