r2i forum

hi reshkk

What have you decided ...r2A for BS or MS ?

It seems to me that the OP, before posting his question, had already decided that "US is better" and made up his mind on moving to the US for his sake rather than the child's. I could be wrong on that but probably ain't. Good luck to him, in any case. I completely agree with Vizagdesi, by the way. The average Indian education is any day better than the average US education. I am the living testament to that! I had below average education in India and have a much above-average career here. The Indian living also makes you street smart, hones your survival instinct, and prepares you for the bad ass real world out there. It is also much lighter on your pocket book. Providing a sheltered life/education to the kids, in my view, is a disservice to them.

I disagree with this view. I have seen american co-workers who were much smarter and knew their priorities in life. They were all from middle to upper class families.

I think the key maybe parenting.


I would prefer to make kids smarter without subjecting them to dog eat dog world in India.

shefamit;637051It seems to me that the OP, before posting his question, had already decided that "US is better" and made up his mind on moving to the US for his sake rather than the child's. I could be wrong on that but probably ain't. Good luck to him, in any case. I completely agree with Vizagdesi, by the way. The average Indian education is any day better than the average US education. I am the living testament to that! I had below average education in India and have a much above-average career here. The Indian living also makes you street smart, hones your survival instinct, and prepares you for the bad ass real world out there. It is also much lighter on your pocket book. Providing a sheltered life/education to the kids, in my view, is a disservice to them.

techynt;637060I disagree with this view. I have seen american co-workers who were much smarter and knew their priorities in life. They were all from middle to upper class families.
I think the key maybe parenting.
I would prefer to make kids smarter without subjecting them to dog eat dog world in India.

It is possible to create a trust fund for the kids (plan B) and then invite Vishnu Sarma, the teller of Panchatantra Stories, to come in and make the kids clever.
The premise of those stories was simple. The King (wealthy sort) wanted to inject some sense into the children. Since they were growing up too fast, ill-equipped to handle the duties of the Kingdom (read: feduciary sense to handle a trust fund), he wanted a quick-fix. The fables were within the children's attention span, and went on to improve their worldly wisdom.
Eat, Love, and allocate assets.

From what I've seen, any aspiring and ambitious young desi kid doing undergrad from "average" desi engineering college, can work a bit harder on their GRE and get admission to a MS program in US (Aid or no aid is a different Q and depends on a lot of factors). After you are in US for MS, and willing to work hard, you are at a level playing field. Yes, your kid still won't be able to compete with Harvard, Stanford undergrads, during the first 5 years of the career. But who cares at that point. Marry another desi techie, live a DINK life for some time, and you are set in life ;-)

Anecdotal discussions in my network suggest that during undergrad college admission time, most top schools will bucket incoming kids to race oriented quotas (supposedly to have balanced cohorts). So your desi kid will be competing with other desi kids based on caliber. I know some families in Bay Area, where kid is studying in Palo Alto High School, taking College level classes in high school, excelling in a bunch of sports and extra curricular, top of the class, and still didn't get an admission to any of the top 5-8 colleges (including local Stanford, UC Berkeley, etc.).

A desi kid applying from Kenya might have a better chance than a desi kid applying from San Francisco.

My thoughts on education in general have been evolving over time. Right now I feel very strongly that parents should look at education for kids from 2 dimensions. Good teaching, courses, facilities, research, etc. is one. The other (and equally important, if not more) is "Network". Education lacking in either is not good. While the former (education) is getting commoditized and cheaper (Coursera, etc.), the latter (Network) is getting more and more expensive.

IITs, Stanfords, Harvards, etc. provide a solid Network for the student to leverage in their future years. And "average" kids too will need such networks in their future careers, to get good jobs, contracts, funding, spouse, sales deal, and a ton of other things. Unfortunately Money and/or Merit are the only 2 factors that count, to get in to these ivory towers of solid networks. If the kid can't get in to such network during undergrad, the only options that remain are MS or MBA. But again, getting in to top notch MBA programs will require an opportunity cost upwards of USD 250K.

With IITs at least there is a merit oriented chance, not some random AdCom person making a decision sitting in an office.

Of course all of the above may seem like a rant from a person who has only seen a career ladder from one perspective. A schoolmate of mine failed his 12th Board exam. His dad bought him a plastic bucket manufacturing machine. His net worth is probably 4-5 times mine.

I think it's a mistake to think that IIT's are the only institutions with networking opportunities.
People here absolutely do not seem to realise the humungous efforts needed to get into IIT these days including completely sacrificing normal school age interests for about 4 years.

[QUOTE]For average Indian kids, do they have a better chance to succeed in life in US or India?


To answer this Kwestin - average kids in either India or America can expect to get an average job. The average job in America may pay more than an average job in India. Now if you ask me where is the bang for buck ? Its USA USA USA. Most companies follow bell curve style for rating and ranking and majority of the average people fall under average category , if thats not obvious. Anyways average kids might perform better than average kid in India purely because of available opportunities.

sumachechi;637151I think it's a mistake to think that IIT's are the only institutions with networking opportunities.
People here absolutely do not seem to realise the humungous efforts needed to get into IIT these days including completely sacrificing normal school age interests for about 4 years.

More than networking opportunities, age and quality of pre-existing network matters more, IMHO.

The rapid pace at which tech is eating jobs, and consolidating many others, means that more kids will be competing for fewer and fewer jobs. So its guaranteed that unless there is some kind of unfair advantage available to the kid, life's going to be tough in future. There are only 2 kinds of unfair advantages: Money and Network. You can leverage one to get the other.

If 4 years of sacrifice could mean a chance to hit the top 5%, its a solid risk to take. And no-one ever lost by working hard.
You probably don't know the level of sacrifice, kids in tech mecca - bay area are having to make, to get in to prestigious colleges. Life's not easy either side of the pond. Its just a matter of perspective.

Article in "The Atlantic" about suicides at Palo Alto High School - The Silicon Valley Suicides

[QUOTE]Gunn is a distillation of what elite parents expect from a school.

Today Gunn is like countless other high-achieving high schools in countless other affluent communities—New York; Washington, D.C.; Dallas; Greenwich, Connecticut; Seattle; Los Angeles—only more so. It is an extreme distillation of what parents in the meritocratic elite expect from a school. The opportunities are limitless and the competition is tough and the pleasant chatter among the parents concerns chances for enrichment. Kids are tracked into “lanes” in math and science and English, which become a big part of their social identity. The school always sends a handful of students to the math and biology Olympiads, and typically some of them place in the top 10 percent. Layered on top of that is the usual array of extracurriculars expected at any affluent school, where it’s okay to have fun as long as that’s not all you’re doing. The robotics team almost always scores near the top in one of the nation’s biggest competitions. The school’s 2013 musical was voted the best youth production in the San Francisco region on BroadwayWorld.com. A recent tedx event was the largest ever held at any American high school. And that’s to say nothing of the prizewinning apps and inventions created by individual students.

But in the e-mails traded among parents in the weeks after Cameron’s death, the obvious worry surfaced about whether all this emphasis on excellence imposed a cost on the kids—a worry that is also beginning to show up in parenting books and op‑eds in newspapers all over the country. Julie Lythcott-Haims, a parent of two and a former freshman dean at Stanford, summarized the prevailing sentiment of those autumn e-mails as: What are we doing to our kids? Palo Alto Online, a community news site, tried to maintain decorum in the comment sections, but the anguish and guilt spilled over. “I think we have to look at the attitude of all the adults in this community,” one person wrote. “It is we who are to blame putting the pressure on the kids to succeed … No amount of school counselling will change the parents’ attitudes.” Another insisted: “There are ways to teach students so they learn but are not tortured.”

The night after Cameron’s death, a sophomore at Gunn named Martha Cabot put up a YouTube video that eventually logged more than 80,000 views, and comments from parents all over the country. Sitting in her bedroom in a T-shirt, with curls falling loose from her ponytail, she confirmed many parents’ worst fears about themselves. “The amount of stress on a student is ridiculous,” Martha said. “Students feel the constant need at our school of having to keep up with all the achievements.” She was recording the video mostly for parents, she explained, because apparently it took a suicide to get adults to pay attention. “We’ll do just fine, even though we got a B‑minus on that chem test,” she said. “And no, I won’t join the debate team for you.”