r2i forum

Many of us take our kids for granted- especially if we r2i when they are young- expecting them to slip right into the new environment. Most of us realize that they have their own little struggles after we see them trying hard to fit in. My children have had issues with their peers in the apt complex as well as in their school/school bus which they are still struggling with after over a year of r2i.

Some of the issues we have noticed are:

1) Teachers ridiculing children for some minor/"silly" mistakes in front of the entire class
2) Teachers teaching incorrect information and not rectifying when my child tried to correct her (this has happened more than once and in one instance, the teacher taunted my child for correcting her)
3) Peers using abusive language and expletives with full knowledge that my children will not use those words. Please give inputs on how you have handled this situation. It only became worse when we tried to tell our children to ignore those comments. We cannot ask them to not play with such children since all of their peers (note almost no exceptions) do this and it is the norm where we live.
4) Bullying in the school bus- older brothers of these bullies join in when our children try to defend themselves. In one case, my child was bruised and had not told us till we noticed the bruise and questioned him (the fear factor of being called names for bringing parents into the equation). The Vice principal reprimanded the children responsible, but also made fun of us when we left her office.

It hurts to see that our children are struggling everyday and silently as they are not good at experssing their fears and concerns.

Please share your experiences if any on the above issues.

What grade is your kid in? I had one in 6th grade and another in 2nd grade. The 6th grade kid had similar issues. I heard that international school does not have these problems. You should seriously consider changing school.

r2iblore2010;422630
3) Peers using abusive language and expletives with full knowledge that my children will not use those words. Please give inputs on how you have handled this situation. It only became worse when we tried to tell our children to ignore those comments. We cannot ask them to not play with such children since all of their peers (note almost no exceptions) do this and it is the norm where we live.

I think you should be OK with your kids using the language their peers use. But explain to them the difference between speaking to friends v/s speaking to elders. What is OK in the playground but cannot be brought home.

My spouse tried to ask our kids why they are not giving back the abuses and pat came the reply, "but it is wrong to use those words and I don't want to do it". How can you encourage your child to use abusive lang? I am at a loss.

Layman: My children are around the same age as yours and both of them have had to deal with these issues. How did you/your child deal with the situation? Kids as young as 6 and 7 use the four lettered words liberally. When I brought this to their parents' attention (assuming that they may have not known about it), they just brushed it off as, "Well, everyone in India uses it and it is not just my kid. It is everywhere and we cannot help it".

International schools are good for people living in villas and living in a bubble. For people living in regular apt complexes, it will not help putting your child in int'l schools. Your child will be exposed to these elements even from children living in your neighborhood who do not attend int'l schools. You may address the incorrect teaching part of the equation, but I am not sure that the level of teachers in int'l schools is much different either. Let me tell you that one of my children is an avid reader and reads a lot of non-fiction books; hence his knowledge for his age is immense and knows when his teacher is making a mistake. However, children whose knowledge base is not that strong (whether in int'l schools or not) may not even know that the teacher is giving incorrect information while teaching. My child's teachers in the US used to be proud to have children like him in the class as they would make it challenging for the teachers as well. Not the case in India....

r2iblore2010;422726My spouse tried to ask our kids why they are not giving back the abuses and pat came the reply, "but it is wrong to use those words and I don't want to do it". How can you encourage your child to use abusive lang? I am at a loss

Your child is doing exactly the right thing and you should be applauding & rewarding him for taking the high road.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why you would want to encourage such a great kid to come down to the level of the kids who are bullying/tormenting him.

It is important to be right and do right rather than to just fit in. If we parents can help kids cultivate such resilience and fortitude, then our job is done.

r2iblore2010;422726My spouse tried to ask our kids why they are not giving back the abuses and pat came the reply, "but it is wrong to use those words and I don't want to do it". How can you encourage your child to use abusive lang? I am at a loss.

Layman: My children are around the same age as yours and both of them have had to deal with these issues. How did you/your child deal with the situation? Kids as young as 6 and 7 use the four lettered words liberally. When I brought this to their parents' attention (assuming that they may have not known about it), they just brushed it off as, "Well, everyone in India uses it and it is not just my kid. It is everywhere and we cannot help it".

My second child did not have issues. My second child is a girl and she was in 2nd grade only. The first one is a boy and the 6th grade kids were very abusive. My kid got stunned and he did not know how to react because he did nothing wrong to start with. The kids there taunt and bully weaker kids and R2I kids become victims. Teachers in my opinion are overwhelmed and they are not in a position to control the kids. They just manage to run the show without major incidents. It is a major chaos situation for them and they cannot handle it. As I said before if the system itself is bad, there is very little you can do. Talk to other folks that have R2I kids in Blr and find out a better school. In the worst case you have to R2A if it comes to the point that it affects your child psychologically.

r2ib..

sorry if iam taking a bit too much freedom...
i think it is time to take a deep breath..and relax(i read your problems with politician upstairs).
I think having positive environment at home is very important..
Exposing children to 'unjust' thing is a concern to you, you can explain to kids..that each country has their own environments.
Take some extra pain and get involved in a charity kind of events (take kids with you..). These feelgood things..may help in finding some fun things in the middle of chaos.
I totally agree that Bullying in schools have to handled by making kids aware on what is acceptable and what's not..
Let your kids fall in to their own circle of friends..if needed try to create oppurtunties (such as birthday parties..). when you meet their parents..just make sure you don't compare what happens in US..just stay lighter...(all is well...)..
Changing school sometimes work (assuming you also work on positive environment).
Interstingly kids (like we used to) know who is cool teacher and who is not.. They maintain their own chemistry with them..(unless you hear abusing stories little intervention is needed. )..you just have to teach kids to play smart with teachers..( sucking up to teachers..bosses..even while making own independent moves..is a good sign in this dog eats dog world..)



thanks
kumar

Layman, your child seems to have faced the same issues as mine. It certainly is a chaos situation in school. I have talked to other r2i parents who moved with us and others as well, and their children seem to be having similar adjustment issues the degre of bullying may be different. My children seem to be handling the situation better this year than last, but the feeling of "I am not one of them" is still there.

At present, I am putting them in some extra curricular activities so they can do something constructive with their time rather than trying to fit in and get bullied.

pskum:
[QUOTE]Exposing children to 'unjust' thing is a concern to you, you can explain to kids..that each country has their own environments.
How can you explain to your child that India survives on bribery/corruption/goondaism? My children did not know, like many r2i kids, the meaning of bribery/corruption. However, my older child was chosen for an anticorruption rally (how ironic) in their school where he had to say some slogans against bribery. He was asked to memorise the sentences and say it in front of the audience, but was not educated on what they meant. He came back home and asked us what are bribery and corruption? We explained to him what it is and showed a live example that happens every night in front of our apt- A cop car comes daily to collect "hafta" from a street vendor for letting him operate his business. My child found it unbelievable that cops are the perpetrators and felt disgusted with the whole system. Are you trying to make your child street smart by such education? Yes. What is the message you are sending to him? He is confused when he shouts anti corruption slogans in school and sees corruption flourishing everywhere around him.

About changing schools, we had given it a good thought. It is not the money that is holding us back, but after speaking to other parents, we found out that the environment in most schools is the same- we have kids going to DPS, Aurobindo, Kuamran's (which is good, but my children do not meet the age criterion), Bishop Cottons, Carmel and Treamis from our apt. There is bullying everywhere (except Kumaran's) and bad teachers. How do you know that the situation will be better in a new school? It may be the same or even worse and the children may have to deal with one more adjustment phase.

My child does not have trouble with most teachers as he is one of those who has learnt over a period of time to keep a low profile. However, how can you not correct a teacher when, for example, she mixes up the process of waxing and waning of moon with that of a a lunar eclipse? The science teacher said in class that the different shapes of moon (waxing and waning) occur due to the fact that the earth comes in the way of the light falling from the sun onto the moon. Do you play the teachers pet and keep silent, or correct the teacher and explain that what she taught was lunar eclipse and not waxing and waning of moon? We encourage our children to speak up if someone is making a mistake no matter who it is (dont confuse with talking back or being impolite) and I do not see any reason for them to not correct the teacher.

Very sensitive subject. Thanks for bringing it up. Kids are cruel by design. Somehow, in the US they manage to keep kids good until they turn 12, whereas in India, niceness disappears by 9 or 10. After that bullying, using bad words, trying bad stuff and doing nasty things start. I do not know the way out. Physical size and ability to be nasty plays an important role.
However, in all schools there are all types of kids...and surprisingly they all find their own types. Sooner or later. And have fun their own ways.
Kid not telling about his bruises should reassure you that he is growing up normally. We all hate that our child is being attacked and bullied and we rightfully suspect that our kid is hiding his internal sorrow and sadness. New kids have to undergo some torture and it is likely that our own kids will do the same thing when opportunity presents itself.
We also feel victimized when teacher is not being nice to our kids. But chances of kid being subjected to deliberate criticism by teachers are slim.
I myself is worried about how my kid will fare in this school system (he is in 2nd grade). Lets see how it goes. As far as I know, new age schools are pretty good and teachers (mostly young girls) are far better than nasty teachers that I had to suffer thru.

[QUOTE]However, how can you not correct a teacher when, for example, she mixes up the process of waxing and waning of moon with that of a a lunar eclipse? The science teacher said in class that the different shapes of moon (waxing and waning) occur due to the fact that the earth comes in the way of the light falling from the sun onto the moon

Teachers can be wrong. They are barely educated. And honestly, half of the Indian science graduates will not be able to explain the phenomena of waxing and waning. Our education system lacks practicality and making simple things complecated.
About teachers not accepting to be corrected needs a far deeper answer and introspection. It is likely that too much importance given to authority and seniority is behind such things. When we can accept and follow practices of touching feets of elders, why not simply accept dictum of 'teacher is always right'? Both are equally archaic and later stems from the former. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

r2iblore2010;422744 ...
My child does not have trouble with most teachers as he is one of those who has learnt over a period of time to keep a low profile. However, how can you not correct a teacher when, for example, she mixes up the process of waxing and waning of moon with that of a a lunar eclipse? The science teacher said in class that the different shapes of moon (waxing and waning) occur due to the fact that the earth comes in the way of the light falling from the sun onto the moon. [/quote]
:) I can imagine my older child in such a situation.

[quote]Do you play the teachers pet and keep silent, or correct the teacher and explain that what she taught was lunar eclipse and not waxing and waning of moon? We encourage our children to speak up if someone is making a mistake no matter who it is (dont confuse with talking back or being impolite) and I do not see any reason for them to not correct the teacher.

Hmm... on top of the unpleasantness from peers, the child having to deal with this from teacher is sad.

Since looks like changing school is not an option, and changing teacher might not help much (other teacher could be similar in attitude), I would suggest making it a teachable (pun intended :-) moment.

If this happened with my older child, I would sit her down (with just me or just dad, not both of us), on a holiday, not around bedtime, with sibling not around to disturb, and brainstorm with her on what are the options in such "teacher is wrong" situations. In the brainstorming, I would let her describe the problem, and let her list the possible options. I would be careful not to show my own irritation or exasperation with the teachers and Indian schools or system. Then, we would evaluate the pros and cons of each option; in this also i would let her lead the evaluation.

I would try to direct the conversation so that she by herself reflects upon things like correcting someone without making them seem/look/feel foolish. Difference in correcting a peer and correcting a teacher. When to approach teacher (after class? not in front of all students?) How to tactfully phrase the sentence that shows the teacher that she is wrong. Instead of directly telling the teacher she is wrong, tell teacher "I read in a book/on the internet that waxing and waning are due to ..." and let teacher say who is wrong - she or the book/internet that child is referring to.

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For the bullying in school part, there were some threads on that here. One such thread: Kids - how to handle bullying at school? I posted some steps in #18, 19 there; those have actually worked for some kids I know. I wonder if bullying in Indian schools can be very different from U.S. schools.

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I don't want to hijack thread into U.S. vs Indians schools discussion, but if it makes any one feel better - clueless teachers who are good at only one or two subjects out of Math, Lang. Arts, Science, Social Studies and make such mistakes like the waxing/waning thing is not unheard of in U.S. schools too.