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karagg;80366What is the significance of Bahya (external) pooja compared to Manasa (internal) pooja?

Why one should do Bahya (external) pooja if one can do Manasa (internal) pooja?
Which is superior?Thanks![/quote]

For starters, bahya pooja involves a 'form' or saguna brahman. Manasa pooja involves a 'formless' or nirguna brahman. It's not a must for either, but that's my assumption for further part here.

Usually manasa pooja involves meditation. Bahya pooja involves sixteen (shodasha) items.
http://www.deityworship.com/temple_worship/temple_bath.htm

The learned say that formless worship is superior. Usually one starts off with bahya pooja to develop the habit/faith and then graduates to manasa pooja after sufficient practice & perfection. However, I have seen even the most learned swamijis doing bahya pooja either briefly or for the sake of followers.

Excerpt: Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman are not two different Brahmans. Nirguna Brahman is not the contrast, antithesis or opposite of Saguna Brahman. The same Nirguna Brahman appears as Saguna Brahman for the pious worship of devotees. It is the same Truth from two different points of view. Nirguna Brahman is the higher Brahman, the Brahman from the transcendental viewpoint (Paramarthika); Saguna Brahman is the lower Brahman, the Brahman from the relative viewpoint (Vyavaharika).
http://www.sankaracharya.org/advaita_philosophy.php

PS: Bobus, layman & b2b - Can you please take your version of pooja stuff to hijack thread? Here is someone asking a very involved, serious question. Thanks in advance.

tejasvee;80440

PS: Bobus, layman & b2b - Can you please take your version of pooja stuff to hijack thread? Here is someone asking a very involved, serious question. Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Am serious too. However I respect your wishes and will ask Admin to move the posts to H and B so the Satsang/Yagna can continue without hindrance from Asuras like me :)

Added Later

Looks like Admin acted even without my asking.

tejasvee;80440For starters, bahya pooja involves a 'form' or saguna brahman. Manasa pooja involves a 'formless' or nirguna brahman. It's not a must for either, but that's my assumption for further part here.

Usually manasa pooja involves meditation. Bahya pooja involves sixteen (shodasha) items.
http://www.deityworship.com/temple_worship/temple_bath.htm

The learned say that formless worship is superior. Usually one starts off with bahya pooja to develop the habit/faith and then graduates to manasa pooja after sufficient practice & perfection. However, I have seen even the most learned swamijis doing bahya pooja either briefly or for the sake of followers.

[/quote]

Thanks Tejasvee...It makes sense to start with bahya pooja to develop the habit/faith and then graduates to manasa pooja after sufficient practice & perfection.

karagg;80573Thanks Tejasvee...It makes sense to start with bahya pooja to develop the habit/faith and then graduates to manasa pooja after sufficient practice & perfection. [/quote]

Not necessary, if you asked a Muslim (I'm assuming that the OP is religion independent...), he/she may not agree.

Many religions start w/ Nirguna and end w/ Nirguna worship. Many religions believe think pagan'ism (saguna?) is primitive.


Tejsavee: The learned say that formless worship is superior. Usually one starts off with bahya pooja to develop the habit/faith and then graduates to manasa pooja after sufficient practice & perfection. However, I have seen even the most learned swamijis doing bahya pooja either briefly or for the sake of followers.

Tejasvee,

Would I be correct if I say that it depends on whom you ask? Or the level of enlightenment that the worshipper has attained?

b2b;80712it is a journey from dwaita to adwaita.....

when one is dwaita ....one feels god and one are different beings.....then one performs sagun pooja....

when one graduates slowly to adwaita....one realises that there is no difference between me and HIM.......me is HIM....in sanskrit soham.....

when a human being is born it starts crying because it forgets 'soham'.....it starts crying 'koham' (who am I).....the whole life journey of the human being is to find answer to the question 'who am I' and to finally realise 'soham' (I am HIM)....

till one realises soham one follows sagun. sakar brahma.....when one realises adwaita (I am HIM)......one starts performing manas pooja......

naam (name - Ram, Krishna) is nirgun, nirakar and murti (idol) is sagun, sakar........

sagun, sakar bhakti leads one to nirgun, nirakar bhakti.....

real thirst is needed for one to reach that status...a person who has that real thirst to realise god is known mumukhsu...

mumukhsu needs guidence from guru in his journey to brahmananda.....saadhan (media) is sagun bhakti in beginning and naam in later parts.....Saadhya (objective) is one becomes naamrup (realisation of that I am HIM (or HIS name))

one more thing is when one comes to this world one is blinded by maya (illusion) and that makes it difficult to remember that I am HIM......sagun (bahya) bhakti helps one slowly realise that.....

[/quote]

Good One... BTW, do you believe in dwaita or adwaita

DosaiLvr;80595Tejasvee,

Would I be correct if I say that it depends on whom you ask? Or the level of enlightenment that the worshipper has attained?[/quote]

Dosai - Yes.
It depends upon whom you ask. I was lucky enough to talk to very down to earth Swamijis of Ramakrishna Ashram (Math) in the early days.

They of course followed the inspirational message of Swami Vivekananda. Here is one such snippet video, going into the depth of why a Hindu does not consider Murti-pooja (Vedic Bahya pooja as the OP termed) as untrue compared to the more advanced nirguna-brahman pooja. The key is 'truth-to-truth' interpretation he gives compared to a Christian or Islamic 'sin-to-truth' interpreation.

In this piece of speech on "Paper on Hinduism", Swami Vivekananda clarifies the misconceptions of Hinduism. He explains the reason behind Idol worship. According to Hinduism, Idol worship is for the beginners, and for the experienced it is not mandatory.

This is the starting step of the search, to recognize that the God is omnipresent.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UPCGixTpa6E

Check out more Vivekananda videos in the first few messages of this thread, if you didn't already
http://www.r2iclubforums.com/clubvb/showthread.php?t=4542