Page 1 of 1
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:27 pm
by Sanjiv
Desi makes very valid points and I agree with him. There is no empirical evidence of god and the burden of proof is on the one claiming that there is a god.
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:20 pm
by KirKS
Sanjiv;266902Desi makes very valid points and I agree with him. There is no empirical evidence of god and the burden of proof is on the one claiming that there is a god.
Neither it is a burden, nor any proof in the format asked by skeptics is necessary.
God exists in each one of us. There are clear steps described by practicing Yogis for ages. If anyone is interested in learning further he/she needs to start practicing the steps. God/Divinity needs to be believed and experienced. Since belief is not acceptable to skeptics, they never try to experience it.
Their denial means nothing for those who believe & try to experience.
If you understand Hindi, Vikram Hazra's words in here will tell you everything I want to say :) If you don't, still it is a melodious 5 minutes that you won't repent!
[YOUTUBE]J7AMYSpAG9Y[/YOUTUBE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7AMYSpAG9Y
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:14 am
by Desi
KirKS;266908Neither it is a burden, nor any proof in the format asked by skeptics is necessary.
When someone makes an assertion (like an assertion that there is god), then for their assertion to be taken seriously, especially if ludicrous, there is a burden regardless of them suggesting that there is no such burden. If there was none, then we should be believing all ludicrous claims about aliens, ghosts, and what have you. If God is a serious claim, then there is a burden. If claim of God is just an attempt to pull someone's leg, then it can be discarded without arguing about burden.
As to proof, without proof a ludicrous assertion is meaningless. At best, it is a hypothesis and not even a theory.
KirKS;266908God/Divinity needs to be believed and experienced. Since belief is not acceptable to skeptics, they never try to experience it.
True. Because God is just a belief, a feeling, a thought process, which is brain generated like happiness, sadness etc. One we believe something differently, the same incident (for example a terrorist action) would make one sad and another person glad. Same event causing two entirely opposite feelings - all a result of brain conditioning. Belief in God is that conditioning.
[YOUTUBE]8YPOTaUyvA0[/YOUTUBE]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Persinger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0
Another way this so called God Experience is created with hypoxia (oxygen deprivation to brain). In fact it is not surprising at all that some people on their death bed who recover describe a God experience because chances are that the brain was deprived of Oxygen. (heart attack or whatever other ailment they may have had).
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:09 am
by boca
Desi;315234True. Because God is just a belief, a feeling, a thought process, which is brain generated like happiness, sadness etc.
The Brain - is wider than the Sky -
For - put them side by side -
The one the other will contain
With ease - and You - beside -
The Brain is deeper than the sea -
For - hold them - Blue to Blue -
The one the other will absorb -
As sponges - Buckets - do
The Brain is just the weight of God -
For - Heft them - Pound for Pound -
And they will differ - if they do -
As syllable from Sound -
- a Poem by Emily Dickinson
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:52 pm
by P_Jani
All I know is,
One day something strange in the form of, the science / outer planet exp. / Someone?s entry from outer space, finding an live planet, exploring the brain scientifically, ?. etc. will happen/ occur and that will bring some surprising results, the change in the whole belief of GOD - the perception of
This imaginary animal, also,?who are we and what is it all about ( universe ) that surrounds us,??etc., forever !
It will open more horizon and the doors of the knowledge, what is this all, all about !
The day after,
people will lock the doors of temples, churches, mosques and other worshipping places forever, slowly but surely for the rest the life. The life after that will be plain mechanical, robotic, materialistic n? scientific, as we see in the movies like Fifth element, Star wars, LS2050 ??..etc.
IMO, Some kind of naked truth will be coming on the table,
which will be hard to digest,
there will be an utmost opposition to get and accept into that system ( Disbelief/belief of GOD ) , but one will have to, since there will be no choice left, as the proofs will be solid and concrete, as we have proof of earth today of being it round.
e.g.
for centuries we believed the earth is flat, and endless, and now we know today with 10% surety, what is it. ( those orthodox who still chant such from religious books with its endless flat surface chanting, have no way out and PPL call them fool !
for centuries, PPL believed the obvious that Earth is center of the earth and sun and all other planetary objects rotate around it, and hardly 300+ yrs ago the Copernicus guy brought something diff. on the table, and can you imagine the opposition that he must had faced !!! But today, we all believe him, by saying ? Baapa and Maayibaap?, as no alternative left !
The same thing will happen to this animal named GOD, and thereafter the people will laugh at themselves,for having such ridiculous belief s for millions of years on this planet, and something on the table will be completely diff. and never ever predicted kind or results, one will have to believe that bitter truth and will be no way out !
All those fantasies about Yumraaj, Nandini, Vaitarini, the son of GOD ? Jesus soldering the dead souls, and other baloneys from all religions will be disappeared forever !
Believe it or not, someday this thing is gonna happen, sooner or later !
Like it or not, the net ? ending results of truth on the table will be quite different, surprising and shocking one !!
Whatever you see, in LS2050 will be a quite reality,
but not necessarily will it happen in 2050, will take time !!
...................................................
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:09 pm
by gwldaddu
My personal opinion. Just sharing…
Belief in God is something you experience from deep within. Some are lucky to experience it, others are too determined and so they experience it. But all this happens from deep within.
Do external factors influence your belief? Yes, they do. Sometimes they make you believe in false stories and then you start believing it blindly. This may or may not help you experience God. Sometimes external factor comes in form of a “true” Guru and with his/her grace, you experience God.
Can I influence beliefs of a non-believer? Yes, to an extent. But unless I am motivated enough and energetic enough, I cannot help the person experience it.
Should I try to influence beliefs of a non-believer? Well, personally, I don’t think so. Let the person learn from his/her experience and inner-voice.
Have I experienced it? Yes!
Can I explain my experience? No! Not required and not possible
2 cents…
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:26 pm
by Desi
I do not think there is anything lucky about it. If anything, such an experience is unlucky - this is because it takes the person away from reality. Our brains can conjure up a lot of things and experiences. Have you heard of situations where a person thinks he heard a voice and that someone was attempting to break in and was scared silly but it was all in his mind, i.e. he just experienced fear, reality was much different. God experience is just that - an experience generated from cultural inculcation and brain actions detached from reality.
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:36 pm
by gwldaddu
Desi;315381I do not think there is anything lucky about it. If anything, such an experience is unlucky - this is because it takes the person away from reality. Our brains can conjure up a lot of things and experiences. Have you heard of situations where a person thinks he heard a voice and that someone was attempting to break in and was scared silly but it was all in his mind, i.e. he just experienced fear, reality was much different. God experience is just that - an experience generated from cultural inculcation and brain actions detached from reality.
Desi, Reality is a relative concept. May be reality was that experience and our world is all unreal? An illusion? See my point? That said, I would politely request not to discuss on my comments in post #255. You are free to discuss. If I put some comments in a public forum, members are free to ignore it or discuss further on it. I am just requesting. Why did I put comments that I did not want to be discussed further? I don’t know. May be I just wanted to write some good words at the start of the day. My personal opinion is that religion is just a personal choice. A person might choose to follow one region, two religion, no religion, a distorted version of some religions etc.. No one should criticize his/her beliefs.
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:46 pm
by Desi
gwldaddu;315385Desi,
Reality is a relative concept. May be reality was that experience and our world is all unreal? An illusion? See my point?
[/quote] No, I don't.
gwldaddu;315385
That said, I would politely request not to discuss on my comments in post #255.
Request accepted, I will not comment further specific to your post.
Evidence vs Faith for God
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:47 pm
by P_Jani
# 255
^^^ Yes. I believe you, whatever you have just said.
But, all I am saying is that the science would had advanced so far and will be having so much total control on brain waves, thought process signals, ( Matrix kind of ) signals creating Fear, blind-faith, deep-faith, tears, tension, stress, worry,…. Etc. and all such, that to divert those thought waves,
One will not have to make a fake bow-down to a stone-idol, just to fool himself,
No need to sitting down for pooja, tap, daivi-chantings, yog, tapascharya, ..or such just to relieve himself from those brain disturbing signals.. !
A person will not have to worry about fear of dark, any tension, worries, stress, death of his/her near ones, or so, as…….
Science will advance so far having total control on brain signals that you press those switches like an i-pod of your shirt pocket and it will stop those fear. You decide what thought process you wanna get enter in your brain !! It will not allow, any stress, tension waves signals to generate and keep your mind away occupying even a bit of thought of those.. !
People are doing this today, by means of over-drunk, crack pipes, pot .. etc today, NO?
Coz, science has not advanced yet to let your brain feed only this and this signal for say another one year, or so !
Think of someone’s near one died, now he is in trouble for next one month ( mentally ),
But now you enter some data in the computer,.. say, Dinner in Buckingham palace, candle light dinner with queen, cocktail, rock and roll….. etc your mind will be now in that dream land experiencing those only, ( no other thought process allowed ) freeing you from any stress or worries, regardless you are a street side beggar or from Ambani family !
All the happiness or unhappiness is just a status of mind !
You will be relieved from wasting time money energy
Of chanting Hanumaan chaalisa 101 times or Gaytri Mantra 1001 times, or bowing down that Jogi Baba / Mullah XYZ having climbed the mountain bare footed while walking 100s miles from the home, by foot .
You will tell the brain, in which direction your signals should go ! You control the signals and not that other way round !
Hence total control over stress, worries, tension, fear of ghost, dark,
brain surrounded of siblings death and many such mental torture thingies will be under your complete control. Say bye to Yog pooja Taap Sadhna, Moksh,a mukti, Fal Tapascharya, ….. for ever !
And who knows, if science came up with controlling the cells and genes, you can freeze yourself and stop the growth of your cells at certain age, not letting you grow any older ( like that star trek characters ! )
Just remember, greed and fear drives 90% things,
could it be a stock market, inviting Brahmins for that holy cow arrangement after death,
stone of Shani / Jupiter wearing on the finger,……. etc
Just like you fill the petrol in your car, you will fill the braing signals every week in your brain
and brain will not accept any third party virus signals ( without your ceonset ) of any fear, ghost, night time shaking, unseen brain vibrations due to bloody red bodies from any riots, streess, tension, worries,.. or any such !
Virus thoughts - No Entry !
If science could explore the Brain completely and advance more for its waves/signals it will solve millions of problems without any sleep tablets, cocaine, high, grass, ..etc end all such peace finding instruments such as yoga, meditation, pooja, sadhna, aaradhna, hanuman chalisa chanting, Tap, Yog, jaap, Katha, Varta, Sat-sang, Paath, Prayers,… sitting in temples and wasting endless time and energy to have pure thoughts etc. to get away from daily life tensions,… and all such.
It will save tons of time money and energy too.
Somehow I see the dark future for Yog, pooja, Taap, Sadhna, Aaradhna, meditation, Moksha mukti, Fal, Tapascharya !!
……………………..