India: Riots and Violence Discussion

[KirKS]

I guess we really need a thread to talk about any riot in India. Riots are a bane of a fractured society. Whether you call things as genocide, riot, ethnic cleansing, communal violence, 'one community attacked another community' or what not.. its a tragic event of loss of lives, loss of dignity, erosion of human rights and most importantly a bane on the progress of the country.

..and.. riots are some of the hottest topics when it comes to political discussion. 2002 and Narendra Modi must have been the most talked about on this forum, but the intention of this thread is to openly talk about ANY riot from India (including pre-partition or historic India). Only when we know the real nature of how riots happened, how they were fanned/spread, how they shaped generations of grudge and most importantly how each riot is perceived politically/religiously/socially by the audience, we can look for some solutions at the end. The most interesting aspect is how "some" riots are condemned, while "some others" are hidden or condoned or even justified.

List of Indian riots (1192 riots listed, from 1950-1995 era):
A very comprehensive list of riots in India, mostly communal ones, from January 1950 till July 1995 (but doesn't include 1984 Anti-Sikh riots and 1983 Anti-Bangladeshi Nellie riots)
http://swd.ucsd.edu/india.xls

There are 1192 riots listed in there for that 45 year period.
Almost all are picked up from Times of India sources.
Column 'AC' of the spreadsheet gives the entire text of description of each riot.

I don't think there could be any more comprehensive report of communal riots in India. If you know, please share it.

Root cause of riots from India over the past 175 years:
http://nomadmolouges.blogspot.com/2008/08/root-cause-of-riots-for-last-175-years.html

This covers 5 riots from 18th century also.
The blog claims that the reasons provided here for each riot is from Government of India.
The list analyzes some terrible riots till 1977.
Some examples are quite common even today: 7 documented major riots have happened in India merely due to "Music in front of a Mosque". 16 documented major riots have happened in India just over cow slaughter and beef display by one community

Here are two riots I want to specifically highlight, particularly to those who are stuck in 2002 and Narendra Modi. The reason I want to highlight these two is because one involved the largest massacre of Muslims in independent India, while the other involved the largest massacre of Sikhs in independent India, both under the direct rule of two "Bharat Ratna" dynasty PMs!

18, Feb 1983; The Nellie Massacre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre
6 hours of planned slaughter, when Assam was under President's rule, under the direct supervision of "Bharat Ratna" Indira Gandhi. Anywhere from close to 2200 to 6000 Muslims, mostly illegals from Bangladesh, butchered mercilessly.

Reaction from "Bharat Ratna" Indira Gandhi?
[QUOTE]Sometimes the lack of action on potential crises is intentional, stemming from a belief that some blood-letting is needed before a major issue can be tackled. I first came across this when I was part of a Financial Times interview with Indira Gandhi, then the prime minister, shortly after 6,000 people had been killed in riots in Assam. We asked Mrs Gandhi why she had not acted earlier to stem the killings, and she replied that one had to let such events take their own course before stepping in.
Oct 31st to Nov 3rd, 1984; The anti-Sikh riots of Delhi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots
Over 3 days of frenzied killing in the nation's capital, when the new PM was right there for most part. Over 3000 dead bodies of innocent men, women and children fell within 20 KM radius of the Prime Minister. It was so one sided, that it might actually qualify as a genocide, if there was anything closest to Genocide in independent India, outside of Jammu & Kashmir's Hindu Pandit ethnic cleansing.

Reaction from "Bharat Ratna" Rajiv Gandhi?
[QUOTE] The phrase is from a statement he made in New Delhi on November 19th 1984, at a Boat Club rally commemorating his late mother's birthday: “Some riots took place in the country following the murder of Indiraji. We know the people were very angry and for a few days it seemed that India had been shaken. But, when a mighty tree falls, it is only natural that the earth around it does shake a little.”So 'some' riots huh?.. 'very angry' huh? 'natural' huh? and worse.. 'does shake a little' huh?

"Some" Bharat Ratnas? huh?

If one goes on to analyze the victim count and make a 'top 10' shameful riots of independent India, I doubt Gujarat 2002 would even make to the top 10... but alas, for some riot means 2002 and Gujarat means riot.

[Desi]

Reaction from "Bharat Ratna" Rajiv Gandhi?
So 'some' riots huh?.. 'very angry' huh? 'natural' huh? and worse.. 'does shake a little' huh?

"Some" Bharat Ratnas? huh?

If one goes on to analyze the victim count and make a 'top 10' shameful riots of independent India, I doubt Gujarat 2002 would even make to the top 10... but alas, for some riot means 2002 and Gujarat means riot.

Sounds like "sins of congress" thread post rather than riots and causes discussion.

[sumeet]

Without researching or digging into all the gory details of all the riots we have had in the past, it must be fair to surmise that the first 9 out of top 10 spots would be garnered by congress.

[boca]

Without researching or digging into all the gory details of all the riots we have had in the past, it must be fair to surmise that the first 9 out of top 10 spots would be garnered by congress.

Are you implying that the 1 spot is reserved for Modi? :)

[indigoyogi]

Are you implying that the 1 spot is reserved for Modi? :)

answer below

Without researching or digging into all the gory details of all the riots we have had in the past, it must be fair to surmise that the first 9 out of top 10 spots would be garnered by congress.

[Desi]

Without researching or digging into all the gory details of all the riots we have had in the past, it must be fair to surmise that the first 9 out of top 10 spots would be garnered by congress.

Are you implying that the 1 spot is reserved for Modi? :)

I wonder "fair" on what grounds, but my pondering aside, No, it cannot be Modi. Narendrabhai Damodardas Modi is innocent. It is fair to surmise that that one spot is the Bombay riots after the Rath Yatra by Shiv Sena. The fairness of surmising the rest is question due to an admitted lack of research

[boca]

answer below

I didn't say 1st spot. I said "the 1 spot", in response to "first 9 out of top 10 spots". I opened up the spreadsheet and find that the top spot for riots resulting in deaths had 600. Now, what is the count for the missing ones since 1995? We can then get a fair idea of where each riot stands relative to each other, specific to fatalities.

[indigoyogi]

I didn't say 1st spot. I said "the 1 spot", in response to "first 9 out of top 10 spots". I opened up the spreadsheet and find that the top spot for riots resulting in deaths had 600. Now, what is the count for the missing ones since 1995? We can then get a fair idea of where each riot stands relative to each other, specific to fatalities.

Mea culpa.

[Desi]

I didn't say 1st spot. I said "the 1 spot", in response to "first 9 out of top 10 spots". I opened up the spreadsheet and find that the top spot for riots resulting in deaths had 600. Now, what is the count for the missing ones since 1995? We can then get a fair idea of where each riot stands relative to each other, specific to fatalities.

Bombay riots of December 1992 had 900 dead. I do not know how that list lists them.

[RBee]

Yesterday in one bay area temple, a Hindutva guy was lecturing on how the Hindus should unite as India is under grave danger of being wiped out as Hindu majority country. Majority of the crowd was very enthusiastic in lining up to collect some brochures and donate for this cause.

He gave 3 main reasons (and no backing up for these 3 other than fiery speech)
1. Pakistan is attacking from all sides and will takeover India if we don't act now.
2. Maoist organization is growing in every state and China will takeover (If Pakistan attacked from all sides, what is left for China logic was lost like the Asrani joke in sholay on rest of the men to follow him after dispersing all in different directions).
3. This one was the most dangerous according to him and people assembled around him. Sonia is drafting a secret bill which will soon become a law that in any Indian riots, from now on, if a minority person attacks or kills another person belonging to majority, he/she will not be prosecuted ever and will be allowed to go scott free. That's how she wants to eliminate majority and make them minority in the future.

What is this bill in number 3? Any one knows more?

Don't say I should have posted in Jokes based on seriousness of many educated people in the assembly.