r2i forum

Harvard-or-Walmart Syndrome

The article is on the regular topic of pushing kids to over-achieve and excel and the negative consequences of doing so. But, what caught my eye was this:

[QUOTE]I propose that economic anxiety is real and that the stakes are indeed high. I also propose that our children increase their odds for success if they learn to work within their own talents and limits, since feigned attempts to exceed them will be revealed somewhere down the road.


Q: In the case of a child who is obviously not a talented over-achiever:

1. Should parents recognize or accept that their child is "average"? If yes, when? How? If no, why not?
2. What effect does such recognizing or accepting have on parenting?
3. What effect does it have on the child if parent accepts that child is average?

4. Is it any different in India vs U.S.A? Does the "your child is average" realization/notification :) come faster in India?

Is parents recognizing a child's limits a wise thing to do or is it inhibiting the child progress and potential in some way?

modus_vivendi;390908Harvard-or-Walmart Syndrome

The article is on the regular topic of pushing kids to over-achieve and excel and the negative consequences of doing so. But, what caught my eye was this:




Q: In the case of a child who is obviously not a talented over-achiever:

1. Should parents recognize or accept that their child is "average"? If yes, when? How? If no, why not?
2. What effect does such recognizing or accepting have on parenting?
3. What effect does it have on the child if parent accepts that child is average?

4. Is it any different in India vs U.S.A? Does the "your child is average" realization/notification :) come faster in India?

Is parents recognizing a child's limits a wise thing to do or is it inhibiting the child progress and potential in some way?

answers -
1. If we assume most things in life are normally distributed then average isn't a terrible idea. For me the key is can we sustain around average and take baby steps to move to the right tail of the distribution (i.e. look to improve progressively).Keep in mind the world isnt running thanks to only "brilliant folks"...for every "brilliant chap" there are 100's who are as successful but "average" . I would take street smartness over brilliance any day (aka dhoni over sachin)
2. If kid is average I guess ensure that one tries to focus on areas of weakness and improve them bit by bit...to me if a kid is at 50th percentile and can be moved to 75th that's a huge....versus soemone whos at 90th and needs to move to 95th.
3. Depends....if you keep telling to your kid "of ur average u wont do anything" then that's a bad idea....instead focus on creating opportunities for the kid to succeed...
4. competition is harder in India coz of limited resources (e.g. good engg colleges) so yes one realizes faster ...however that's good coz then one can work on trying to improve faster.

all in life is quite long so this labeling of someone as average at an early age is a bad idea....give them time and opportunities and most kids will do just fine....

Among my local friends, some moms or dads of kids in the 4-10th grade age group say, "My kid is average, I know it, the teachers know it, but my spouse has a hard time accepting that." The mom or dad says she/he has to keep reminding spouse that their child is average and nothing wrong with that, don't push, let the child be.

One parent wants child to take part in spelling bee, math olympiad and other competitions, child is not keen, and other parent agrees with the child. Child gets mixed signals, and parents argue behind the child.

In another case, mom is ok with B grades, dad goes ballistic, esp. for math & science.

modus_vivendi;390941Among my local friends, some moms or dads of kids in the 4-10th grade age group say, "My kid is average, I know it, the teachers know it, but my spouse has a hard time accepting that." The mom or dad says she/he has to keep reminding spouse that their child is average and nothing wrong with that, don't push, let the child be.

One parent wants child to take part in spelling bee, math olympiad and other competitions, child is not keen, and other parent agrees with the child. Child gets mixed signals, and parents argue behind the child.

In another case, mom is ok with B grades, dad goes ballistic, esp. for math & science.

Human tendency is to complicate life and contradict it.

As a side parents crib so much about the rote system of Indian education but seem to line up in ever increasing numbers for spelling bee competitions. What's the practical use of "spelling bees"

After seeing, living, eating with the poorest of the poor, and the richest of the rich I have come to a conclusion that "genius" or "inherent intelligence" is way over rated. Continuous hard work ultimately beats or at the least can bring one at par with the smart and intelligent folks of the world.

Sid, well said. Consistency is the key to achieve brilliance. Inherent genuis is not required.

oasis138;390948As a side parents crib so much about the rote system of Indian education but seem to line up in ever increasing numbers for spelling bee competitions. What's the practical use of "spelling bees"

What is the use? So that the parents can boast to their peers! :) In my observation, the kids that excel in spelling bees are above average and intelligent in general. It is just another focus for them. It is not that they only excel in spelling bee through rote system. As a result of trying to excel in spelling bee, they gain knowledge. They not only learn the spelling of the words, but its meaning (not rote the meaning, but being able to understand the meaning in context) and its etymology. There is so much knowledge behind each word. In summary, they become more knowledgeable than if they didn't know those words. To what use is such knowledge? If one believes that knowledge is path to wisdom, then it serves it purpose, though not in the context of trying to win the spelling bee, but in the context of increasing their breath of knowledge.

When I come across a word that I didn't know about and do some reading on the word and expand it to articles written in the context of such words, it opens up new knowledge that I didn't have before.

oasis138;390948...As a side parents crib so much about the rote system of Indian education but seem to line up in ever increasing numbers for spelling bee competitions. What's the practical use of "spelling bees"

If the child is interested in it, it might be worth it, irrespective of the usefulness of spelling bees.

What if child is a voracious reader, has a reasonably good vocab, but not the spelling bee kind. Dad thinks he should compete for spelling bee, mom is ok with child skipping it as she knows that with lots of coaching and prep child might progress to a decent level, but she thinks it is pushing him beyond his regular capability and no point pushing him to a level that is not sustainable. In this and similar situations does the author's comment hold good:

I also propose that our children increase their odds for success if they learn to work within their own talents and limits, since feigned attempts to exceed them will be revealed somewhere down the road.

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and similarly, if the child consistently gets a B grade (85-90%) in say math & science, but is obviously doing his honest best, is that good enough, or should he be pushed to get an A (not A+). How much pushing?

boca2blr;390976What is the use? So that the parents can boast to their peers! :) In my observation, the kids that excel in spelling bees are above average and intelligent in general. It is just another focus for them. It is not that they only excel in spelling bee through rote system. As a result of trying to excel in spelling bee, they gain knowledge. They not only learn the spelling of the words, but its meaning (not rote the meaning, but being able to understand the meaning in context) and its etymology. There is so much knowledge behind each word. In summary, they become more knowledgeable than if they didn't know those words. To what use is such knowledge? If one believes that knowledge is path to wisdom, then it serves it purpose, though not in the context of trying to win the spelling bee, but in the context of increasing their breath of knowledge.

When I come across a word that I didn't know about and do some reading on the word and expand it to articles written in the context of such words, it opens up new knowledge that I didn't have before.

I'll be shocked if 10-12 year old kids are exploring the meaning of 100's of words each day in hope of gaining wisdom ......seems far worse than 8-10 hours of cramming by 15-17 year olds for IIT in India.

PS - perhaps it will help us rediscover our glorious literary past....maybe some of these spelling bee kids will be the next Gen Tagore's??? nahhhhhhh....bring on computers and fin services.

oasis138;390990I'll be shocked if 10-12 year old kids are exploring the meaning of 100's of words each day in hope of gaining wisdom .

It is humanly not possible at that age to rote learn every word and remember it. About gaining wisdom,... children that young(good readers with good vocab) are just curious to search meaning even without being told to do so. IMO : )