r2i forum

What follows is a copy and paste job of posts that I believe are directly relevant to the OP's post in the following thread. I may accomplish the copy-paste job over several posts.

Having a child In US after R2I

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mama101

Hello...
We R2I-ed in Feb 07 after living in US for ~ 9 years. My son, who is now 2 &1/2 yrs old was born there and is therefore a US citizen...my husband and i do not have GC or citizenship. we want to have our second child in US too, cost wont be an issue, even without insurance. has anybody done this or know of anybody who has done it? i think a US citizenshio is of extreme importance when it comes to education and work prospects and it doesnt seem fair for one child to have it and the other to not. please share your views.

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Bobus

... it doesnt seem fair for one child to have it and the other to not...

Yes, I would be uncomfortable with it.

Relevant Links

Birth Tourism - LA Times

http://www.vdare.com/sutherland/rescue.htm

Wikpedia : Birthright Citizenship

WikiPedia: Birth Tourism

Some may frown on your plans. Those who frown could be India "nationalists", Americans and some who dont like exploitation of a loophole on such an issue. While it does amount to an exploitation of a loophole, I have no "moral" quibbles about what you intend to do.

Please note that airlines may have rules about allowing pregnant women to travel, beyond some stage/month of pregnancy and that the US Constitution may (may not) be amended to plug the loophole.

The best course of action is probably for you / spouse to apply for and get a job (H1B) in the US when you are ready to make a baby or have already conceived. If not, you can apply for a tourist visa, and move in at an appropriate stage of pregnancy. Be prepared to stay in the US for some time even after birth until you get SS card, passport etc for child and factor in costs of stay for anyone who accompanies you.

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mama101

Bobus, thank you very much...i was also thinking along the lines that it might be difficult to get into the country with a 8 month pregnant belly :) and that we may want to move sooner...thank you for the comments.

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MeraNaseebR2I

I know several people who have entered the US during their 2nd Trimester (typically it is safe to travel at that time and a woman does not look very pregnant in 2nd trimester) on a business visa. Stay in this country for 6 months with a relative. Have a baby and then leave for India when the baby is 2 months with a valid US passport for the baby.

You can work out the dates based on the above schedule.

SOme movie stars from Bollywood, Tollywood, etc have also done this.

Yup as pointed out by Bobus, one can question Nationality, Ethics etc. of doing this, but then each to his own.

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layman

Okay, I am the first person to provide an alternative view point and I know brickbats coming.

Anyway, this is my opinion. There are a lot of families that have a mix of US citizen and Indian citizen as kids. It is not really worth the pain to travel when some one is 8 or 6 month pregnant just for the sake of getting a US citizenship for the baby. There are "n" number of Indian kids getting admission in US universities and studying (including undergrad). They are not US citizens.

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realentity

I agree with Layman. First of all, no insurance company is gonna provide coverage for a 6 month pregnancy. It would cost you close to $20,000 without insurance for a normal delivery. Family sponsored green cards take years to process. So if both your kids are USC, they would fly out of India the moment they turn 18 and never come back. That would leave the two of you alone in India. As far as education is concerned, US universities always want international students who can get them revenue. So, they can always come to the US to study on a student visa.

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cool_r2i

I agree with #5 on this. I don't think it's a big problem if you don't have US citizenship - even it does not really matter if one child is US citizen and the other is not. It's up to them to get what they want in life. Similarly, it may not be a good idea to deliberately go back to India just to stop the kid from getting US citizenship (I have seen one of my friend doing this because their first kid was born in India and they did not want the 2nd one to be in US - so they went back to India by making some adjustments in project, schedule etc).

Other thing to consider is -
I am not sure what your situation is, but generally one will have lot of support/help from family members in India - If it is other way for you (I mean, if you have more support in USA), then it may be the best thing to do. I believe that family support and both husband and wife being together is more important than anything else.

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Bobus

#3: Welcome - please feel free to go thru links for modus operandi, costs and the relevant law.

#4: My spouse who follows Bollywood and other filmwoods much more than I do confirms that some actresses visit US to deliver baby...


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Leha-Leha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobus
... it doesnt seem fair for one child to have it and the other to not...

Yes, I would be uncomfortable with it.

Bobus, don't you think the child with US citizenship will be highly disadvantaged considering the World Wide Tax policy of US. He(/she) may be penalised with high tax rates even if he is working in tax efficient cities like Dublin/Singapore/Hong Kong. Will he be able to take advantage of favourable Capital Gains Tax treatment of countries like say UK / India?

Isn't it better to give financial flexibility as one can always purchase citizenship of visa friendly countries like Canada/Australia/New Zealand that should open up enough international opportunities for the child?

I am sure you know better as you are the financial expert!

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Bobus

#9:

From tax point of view, USC can be a disadvantage. However, USC can be relinquished - relinquishment attracts expatriation tax provisions only if one is wealthy or has substantial income.

It probably does not make sense for a Lakshmi Mittal to take up USC. For many others (not all), USC and even a GC has not insignificant positive expected value.

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layman

The OP asked for others' views. I provided my view based on some other people around me. My friend took Indian passport when his child was born in US because the parents have Indian passports. Another friend returned to India and had a child and the second child is an Indian citizen. Both of them say that Indian citizenship is fine for their kids. So, it is my view that some one need not have the hardship of travelling short just to get a US citizenship. I am taking into account the cost involved in doing it such as insurance, people to take care of the mother and child (the clinic will try to get the mother and child out ASAP), the first kid's whereabouts during that time....etc.

I feel some one need not hug on to the nose of a plane to UK to get UK citizenship. Is it wrong to say this statement too according to you, just because there are people who think that is the right thing to do :)?

I already said these are my opinions. The OP can take it or leave it.

Anyway, I use "someone" or "one" very often to avoid first and second person references. I never knew that there are issues with that too.

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MadMax

I agree. Also, aren't the medical costs exorbitant if there is no insurance? The insurance companies bargain with the providers and have their preffered rates. Without that the cost to an individual is 3-4 times what the cost is to an insurance company.


Quote:
Originally Posted by layman
The OP asked for others' views. I provided my view based on some other people around me. My friend took Indian passport when his child was born in US because the parents have Indian passports. Another friend returned to India and had a child and the second child is an Indian citizen. Both of them say that Indian citizenship is fine for their kids. So, it is my view that some one need not have the hardship of travelling short just to get a US citizenship. I am taking into account the cost involved in doing it such as insurance, people to take care of the mother and child (the clinic will try to get the mother and child out ASAP), the first kid's whereabouts during that time....etc.

I feel some one need not hug on to the nose of a plane to UK to get UK citizenship. Is it wrong to say this statement too according to you, just because there are people who think that is the right thing to do :)?

I already said these are my opinions. The OP can take it or leave it.

Anyway, I use "someone" or "one" very often to avoid first and second person references. I never knew that there are issues with that too.

Cheers!!!!:emteeth:

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Desi

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama101
Hello...
We R2I-ed in Feb 07 after living in US for ~ 9 years. My son, who is now 2 &1/2 yrs old was born there and is therefore a US citizen...my husband and i do not have GC or citizenship. we want to have our second child in US too, cost wont be an issue, even without insurance. has anybody done this or know of anybody who has done it? i think a US citizenshio is of extreme importance when it comes to education and work prospects and it doesnt seem fair for one child to have it and the other to not. please share your views.

Explore the possiblity of a question on pregnancy on a tourist visa application. Possibility exists that a tourist visa application may be denied if pregnant - other than that, if there are any issues with pregnancy such as C section etc, the costs can ramp up.

Just wanted to highlight these so that you take these into consideration and not to discourage.

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Mel

Just to highlight one of my friend's case - His daughter was born a little earlier than the due date and some other "slight" complications that required her staying in the NICU for 3 days, the bill for those 3 days was $30K and this was 3-4 years ago. Luckily for him, he had insurance, so make sure you have insurance.

Also I am not sure if the "better" doctors will admit patients without insurance, especially if one is not a USC, they could assume you will fly back without paying their charges. I would do some research on this to be safe. The last thing you want is to start looking for doctors and having to run around during the 2nd trimester when your wife should be seeing the doctor every 2-4 weeks for regular check ups.

Personally, I think coming here on a visit visa just to have kid born in the US, is way too expensive. On the other hand if you can come here on H1, it will definitely be a less financial hurdle.
__________________
Life consists not in holding good cards, but in playing those you hold well.

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rati

OP says "cost is not an issue, even without insurance."
Extremely rich or has a doctor for a close realtive, so you guys should lay off the "it will cost you a lot " discussion

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gotama

Desi and a couple of others brought out some good points about the costs to consider. I thought I would add the following although "cost is not a consideration" to the poster.

In the insurance company statements, I remember seeing something like "Insurance negotiated rate", which is lower than the original doctor rate for the service. So, even if you don't have an insurance that covers all or most of the service, it would be nice to take some insurance, which would get you this lower "negotiated rate". You will need to pay this out of your pocket.

Insurance rules vary from state to state, but when I lived in New Hampshire a few years ago and my parents were visiting me, I took a "temporary insurance" from Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Hampshire. The premiums were very low (something like $100/person/month) but the coverage was low as well ($1,500 deductible and a maximum cap of $50,000). My dad was hospitalized and this insurance really saved me at that time.

I don't remember many of the details now, but this insurance was supposed to be for people out of work, etc. and you could take it for a maximum of 1 year (2 renewals of 6 months). Friends of mine thought this was a cool deal, but couldn't find an equivalent in their state. I have put all I can remember, so please don't reply asking more questions. Do your own research. I put all this here just in case it might help the Original Poster or any other member.

Also, I heard that if you don't have any insurance, you can negotiate with the Doctor/Hospital and pay an even lower rate than the "Insurance negotiated rate". I don't know how far this is true, but as I said, do your own research.

- Gotama, the Budha.

MeraNaseebR2I



__________________
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.- Einstein

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tejasvee


I came to this thread to find some information about the question posed in #1. The last few posts have nothing to do with the question posed by the original poster.

Can we take these discussions into another thread? Please...

.. and delete them from this thread?

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MeraNaseebR2I

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejasvee
I came to this thread to find some information about the question posed in #1. The last few posts have nothing to do with the question posed by the original poster.

Can we take these discussions into another thread? Please...

.. and delete them from this thread?

Thanks - that is the sole reason why I posted #42 last night.

It's to make people know that OPis seekign USC for her yet to be born child.

Lets steer this discussion on-course.

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hyderabadi2006

I tried to read some of the latest reposnes and didn't have patience to go thro the long posts by certain members back and forth which has nothing to do with OP's post.

Anyways my take is, if you can easily do it (visa status and Financials ) I would say go for it. Having a baby is a beatiful time of your life, and have a nice vacation in US during that time. I agree with you with the following in particular

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama101
it doesnt seem fair for one child to have it and the other to not. please share your views.

I know one family who did that same thing, R2I'ed with one child (Born in US) and came back for the second one and went back. Now they came back for R2A and they are happy with their decision.

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hyderabadi2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama101
Hello...
We R2I-ed in Feb 07 after living in US for ~ 9 years. My son, who is now 2 &1/2 yrs old was born there and is therefore a US citizen...my husband and i do not have GC or citizenship. we want to have our second child in US too, cost wont be an issue, even without insurance. has anybody done this or know of anybody who has done it? i think a US citizenshio is of extreme importance when it comes to education and work prospects and it doesnt seem fair for one child to have it and the other to not. please share your views.

Layman and Bobus,

Again, I didn't go thro all your lenghty posts.... but could you please stop ... if it has nothing to do with OP's post. .... please and I really mean it.

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I believe that I have completed the copy-paste job. If I have inadvertently left out relevant posts, please feel free to let me know.

I hope members who are interested in the topic suggested by the thread title can now find relevant info easily and continue the discussion in this thread.

My apologies to members who wanted to do the above, but found it difficult to do so until this thread was created.

Cheers !

>>My apologies to members who wanted to do the above, but found it difficult to do so until this thread was created.

Bobus,

Thank much for taking the trouble to create this thread in order to allow the discussion on the OP continue.

W/ the intention that your effort should not go wasted, I make this post and hope that those who were distracted by the "sidebar" will now reenter this discussion enthusiastically!

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OP, If cost and effort is not an issue, you should go for it! I would...

Most of the time people who R2I or LIA assume the obvious, that India will never be USA, It is probably a safe assumption, but can we bank on that ?

With all the problems India has (corruption, pollution, value for life etc.) I can tell from my experience that India still is growing rapidly in lots of directions. When I was kid I would see that a road is being dug up and build for 6 - 8 months only for it to be dug again when it is done. Nowadays I see roads build up in a day or two. In 1992 I was in UK and the sterling fell drastically from 60 to 45, I encashed at some 45Rs/pound later on to buy an apartment. A few years later I was aggravated at seing the pound go up to 70. Since then I always held on to the $s (In 1993 I was getting close to 20% interest on my pound deposits) assuming that the $ will always appreciate. But today that notion is challenged.

Hospitals and schools are popping at an alarming rate. People are buying goods at an alarming rate. Recently my driver was telling me that its time for me to buy a new phone. I had an old fashioned blackberry which people keep telling me is huge. Colleagues at workplace are buying really expensive phones and having lifestyles much more than their incomes can afford. People at 25/26 are investing in the stock markets.

There was a talk that in 15 years time the exchange rate would be at Rs. 30 per dollar. The way things are going I don't think it will be 15 years.

Yes some stupid politicians will/can sabotage this progress. People are still socialistic minded, but the capitalists will have them converted soon (not sure about the politicians though).

What if India really becomes a US by the time your kids grow up? Then won't your kids curse you of giving them US citizenship, where if they earn big salaries they will be taxed even by US? What if some day the GOI makes USCs life difficult for finding jobs and having investments?

The fundamental flaw I find in people who R2I is that they keep the option of going back to US open assuming that their kids will always return.

I am told that I did grave injustice to my 2nd kid by making her an Indian. I am sometimes more worried that I didn't get my 1st kid Indian citizenship. The amount of running around I had to do for my 1st kid was exasperating. I will have to do something similar in 10 years time when her passport expires.

This is just an opinion not intended to aggravate anyone.

OB1.