r2i forum

Reposting my message in the new home -

From: r2pun1 (Original Message)Sent: 2/6/2007 1:55 PM

Please use this thread to post your expriences, vent out and also your expert advice to others who are suffering. Post anything related to ofice politics here right from work place productivity to the effect of politics on your health and relationships etc.

From: r2pun1Sent: 2/6/2007 2:12 PM

Let me start with a very close friend's experience. She is working in this org. for last 7 years. Recently they had a team re-org and her manager has introuced more layers in his team. She now has to report to a junior emplyee who will head her team. She found it very insulting,stressful(few years ago she was manipulated by this junior employee) and tried to talk with her manager for an alternative role which did not work out. She is very sad and is in the process of handing her notice.

She asked me for an advice but I have never been in such situation before and don't know whether to advice her to stay on or to leave. Please, if any of you have been through this or similar situations, or any of you have handled such situations as a manager share your comments so i will have something to suggest her.
Thanks
r2pun

Recently they had a team re-org and her manager has introuced more layers in his team.

How long has this manager known her and the junior employee to make such a decision.

She now has to report to a junior emplyee who will head her team.

There must be a reason for that. Reporting to a junior (how junior is also an important question) is not necessarily a bad thing. How and why is this person deemed junior. Your friend has 7 years experience. How much are their respective experiences in the company and in total.

She found it very insulting,stressful

stressful could be resulting due to the insult. But why is it insulting to report to a junior ?

few years ago she was manipulated by this junior employee

how ? If she could be manipulated by a junior then either this junior is a cunning person or a smart one, which one is it ? OTOH she's probably very gullible or not authoritative or doesn't have any authority.

She is very sad and is in the process of handing her notice.

Working 7 years in an organization (is it IT, probably not) and she has to run ? Doesn't the organization value her ? Quitting your job because of someone you think is junior is escapist.

Your friend has some deep thinking to do. Since the facts are second hand, nothing much can be concluded.

For one, working under a junior shouldn't be stressful or insulting. You do your work, you get paid, you go home. End of story.

Office politics are unavoidable, you can run but you can never hide. One has to either master it or totally ignore it.

Only advise I would offer is to stick it out and one day either she'll learn something or she'll be the victor. If she runs she will be running forever.

OB1

Thank you for both replies. They are very useful to me.

Here is some more info -

This friend is a Desi. The junior employee is caucassian (local national ).
As per my friend, the junior employee comes from a phsycology background, is very devious and will use every trick in the book, politicaly very sound and technically flop.

OB: Here are answers to your questions :

1) How long has this manager known her and the junior employee to make such a decision.
# --The manager knows my friend for last 7 years since she is working in the co. however she was hired by a different manager. The current manager was a team leader when my friend was hired. Since last 4-5 yrs he is my friend's direct manager.
The junior employee is hired by this current manager 5 yrs ago.

2) How and why is this person deemed junior. Your friend has 7 years experience. How much are their respective experiences in the company and in total.

#-- My friend 7 yrs in the co. The junior employee 5 yrs.


3) Stressful could be resulting due to the insult. But why is it insulting to report to a junior ?
#-- Don't know to be honest, may be an individual feeling.

4) If she could be manipulated by a junior then either this junior is a cunning person or a smart one, which one is it ? OTOH she's probably very gullible or not authoritative or doesn't have any authority.
#-- Based on my knowledge of my friend I suspect, both things are working here. This junior employee is very cunning and uses my friend's shyness against her.
My friend did not want a conflict initially because she couldn't change cos (visa issues etc), did not have much skills experience,and also not authoritative at all.
I remember an experience that made her feel manipulated. This junior employee tried to organise a meeting with her when she had marked holiday in her meeting calendar. My friend told her I can't because I am off and she said to my friend that is fine we will do it another time and after 2-3 weeks my friend's manager told her he is not happy with her performance - this person is trying to book a meeting with you for last 3 weeks and you didn't respond, we can't afford to have this happening in our team. My friend was very shocked with this behaviour and lost her composure and was unable to speak anything in her defence.
5) Working 7 years in an organization (is it IT, probably not) and she has to run ? Doesn't the organization value her ?
#-- This organization like some others, work ont he fresh blood concept. They don't value skills, experience as much as political abilities (this is my friend and some of her co workers' observation)

6) Quitting your job because of someone you think is junior is escapist.
#-- May be in one way. In other way may be it may give her a chance to realise her own potential, however, it will come at a cost. I particularly don't want to give her biased advice because she is a single mother and it may affect her financially.
7) Your friend has some deep thinking to do. Since the facts are second hand, nothing much can be concluded.
#-- Agreed, it could be a hard task. However, I will try and bridge this gap as close as possible.

Please keep posting your replies. It will give a good view from both the sides and in some time I will have some good advice to give her.

meranaseebR2I,

Thanks ! It is a very sensible post. I will have a chat with her and post my findings shortly.

Given the current situation she may be better off quitting. But she should make sure she starts off her next job on the right foot.

r2pun1;6211My friend was very shocked with this behaviour and lost her composure and was unable to speak anything in her defence.

This may be her biggest weakness. To survive situations like this one has to develop thick skin. Most people face their first political challenge at around 5-7 of experience. That's when they first taste managerial power and come to grips with power struggle, rat race, etc. I went through this 10 years back in both US and India, and it is tough in both places.

You have to starting watching your back, never let others take credit for your work, confront and take the bull by the horn, don't take crap from others, don't take on responsibilities that aren't yours, etc, etc. Office is a harsh world, and there are some real hyenas out there...

A difference of 2 years with the company is not substantial to make a difference for the promotion especially since the other guy has also been there for 5 years...not for a year or two. Expecting promotion on seniority basis is typical desi mentality and is not the reality is US. Not everybody is cut out to be a leader/manager. You have to accept that. The other guy must have better qualities to be a manager/lead.

Also, staying with the same company in the same/similar position is a very career limiting move. I would hate it and start hating my fellow workers.

Samurai,

Thank your for your reply. Yes she was saying that office is a very harsh environment and there is no place for feelings there.
Unfortunately she is very simple (upto the extent I know her), very straight, trusts people very easily and believes eveything that they say. ( For example, after 2 years she asked for a raise and her boss told her that there is no budget and she simply didn't ask anything till next year. ) Many people find it hard to believe that such simple people also exist.

Sixth Sense,

Thank you for the detailed and sstematic break up. Just want to correct two of your assumptions -

1) This is very much an IT Company(one of the largest corporations).
2) My friend doesn't have any visa issues. She is a citizen of the country and entitled to full social benefits. Don't know social benefits are available if one quits voluntarily.

Well, I didn't expect anybody to pass moral judgement on the survival rules I gave. I didn't say they are the right/moral thing to do, I gave the defence against dark arts (as in politics) points. If you want to offer the other cheek, office environment is a bad place to be. I never played office politics, but I learnt not to become the victim after a few bad experiences. After years of this BS, I quit and joined a tiny firm and kissed office politics goodbye.

The rules I gave should be used within reason, against the known office hyenas. Even the best tools are useless in an incompetent pair of hands.