Is India losing the edge or has it already lost it???

[DoctorJ]

[quote]
R&D, CHINESE STYLE
A growing number of international companies are adding research and development capabilities in China, note separate reports in Business Week and The Nikkei.

Citing a 2005 World Investment Report from the UnitedNations Conference on Trade and Development, BW notesthat Western multinationals have more than 700 R&D facilities in China. The list includes General Motors, Nissan, DuPont, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel, Lucent Technologies, Microsoft and Motorola.

The number of foreign-owned R&D facilities in Shanghai alone totaled about 200 by the end of last month, with two or three new ones being added each month, according to The Nikkei. It points out that China’s supply of engineers and scientists is especially attractive to Japanese companies that face a shortage of engineers in their home market. It says Hitachi Ltd. plans to more than double the number of workers at its Beijing R&D center to 200 by 2010. The company
employs about 1,000 engineers and technicians throughout China. Similarly, Toray Industries Inc. expects to boost its researchers in China by 50% to 350 by next year. Nissan Motor Co. aims to increase its staff to 320 in coming years, according to the newspaper.

The electronics industry in particular is investing in R&D operations in China. This is attributed to the combination of low-cost engineering and a network of electronics related suppliers throughout the country.

In addition to supporting local plants, Chinese R&D facilities also are developing products for other markets. As a result, China has emerged as the second-largest R&D market in the world behind the U.S., according to a report issued last fall by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. It estimates that China spent $136 billion on R&D across all industries last year. That compares with $330 billion for the U.S., $230 billion for the European Union and $310 billion for Japan.
[/quote]


Let's discuss this unholy and scary development...


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It's probably time to compete on a war footing...-DJ :cool:

[layman]

India is not thinking strategic. It is only thinking short term. I also read some where else China is churning out the most number of PhDs or something like that. I will dig that out and post it later.

Indian companies are focusing only on increasing headcount. That was my qualm in the other thread on Narayanamurthy. http://www.r2iclubforums.com/clubvb/showthread.php?t=1701&page=4 Indian individuals also are thinking shot term only. Well qualified research professionals want to move into management and want to manage some college freshers that do work in the lower part of value chain. The net effect. We will not have enough Intellectual Property. We will also not be in the core of a business. Because we will be experts in managing warm bodies doing some one else's peripheral work. In the other thread on Infosys I mentioned that we were doing high calibre work in Bangalore before the advent of Infosys, Satyam and the likes. I do not deny that Infosys, Satyam are necessary but we have to see that as short term execution items and look beyond that for strategy. China is smart in that aspect.

[layman]

India is not thinking strategic. It is only thinking short term. I also read some where else China is churning out the most number of PhDs or something like that. I will dig that out and post it later.

Indian companies are focusing only on increasing headcount. That was my qualm in the other thread on Narayanamurthy. http://www.r2iclubforums.com/clubvb/showthread.php?t=1701&page=4 Indian individuals also are thinking shot term only. Well qualified research professionals want to move into management and want to manage some college freshers that do work in the lower part of value chain. The net effect. We will not have enough Intellectual Property. We will also not be in the core of a business. Because we will be experts in managing warm bodies doing some one else's peripheral work. In the other thread on NRN I mentioned that we were doing high calibre work in Bangalore before the advent of Infosys, Satyam and the likes. I do not deny that Infosys, Satyam are necessary but we have to see that as short term execution items and look beyond that for strategy. China is smart in that aspect.

Think about it. Infosys employs around 60000 employees for a revenue of $3bil. If one smart R&D engineer in China invents a new product, with 1000 people a company can generate $10 billion or more. Even if they license it and does not deploy a single person for it , still they can earn billions.

[DoctorJ]

In the other thread on Infosys I mentioned that we were doing high calibre work in Bangalore before the advent of Infosys, Satyam and the likes. I do not deny that Infosys, Satyam are necessary but we have to see that as short term execution items and look beyond that for strategy. China is smart in that aspect.[/quote]

I understand your POV and I'm partially in agreement with you in this line of argument...said as much in that thread too.

Personally, I know it is true 'cause most of all my friends and colleagues (at least the cream of them including myself - although I may not necessarily qualify to be grouped amongst the cream) who worked at ADA, ADE, NAL etc. quit to accept high paying positions/jobs in the IT industry spearheaded by the likes of Infosys and other such. But then, on second thoughts, I wonder if we were really doing anything significant at DRDO. Think of "Light Combat Aircraft" and the "Kaveri Engine" (not to mention other expensive projects) - without divulging too much of national secret, I'll say we were not much of a success even before the advent of Infosys or the IT revolution in India.

In here, I think there is more to the topic in terms of inherent regional/local political situation, lack of conducive atmosphere, innate nature and cultural compulsions not to think beyond obvious, lack of urge to seek seemingly unachievable etc.

In any case, let's hear other thoughts...please feel free to counter or add to your original thoughts. You definitely seem to think well and different and I personally value your thoughts.

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More diverse thoughts contribute to a meaningful discussion. -DJ :cool:

[DoctorJ]

People do not like it when I say it. But, think about it. Infosys employs around 60000 employees for a revenue of $3bil. If one smart R&D engineer in China invents a new product, with 1000 people a company can generate $10 billion or more. Even if they license it and does not deploy a single person for it , still they can earn billions.[/quote]

This is exactly what I was trying to drive at...while you were posting. The question is...Do we really have it in us to develop one such innovative product??? If we do...Why do we (as individuals and as a company) hesitate in doing so?

Well, a corporate company with services business in mind might not be willing to invest in this effort based on the lack of success or for most parts failure of Governmental organizations earlier. Don't you think so? If you don't agree...why did the Governmental Agencies fail???

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It's a good thought...but how do we achieve the goal? -DJ :cool:

[layman]

This is exactly what I was trying to drive at...while you were posting. The question is...Do we really have it in us to develop one such innovative product??? If we do...Why do we (as individuals and as a company) hesitate in doing so?

Well, a corporate company with services business in mind might not be willing to invest in this effort based on the lack of success or for most parts failure of Governmental organizations earlier. Don't you think so? If you don't agree...why did the Governmental Agencies fail???

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It's a good thought...but how do we achieve the goal? -DJ :cool:[/quote]
Well, Government agencies provide the grounds and conducive environment. They lack the marketing power. Private companies make derivative products out of Government research and market them. In US, that is the model. DARPA is a research project of US defence dept. But, then private companies created an eco system of marketable products around it. Indian companies should try it. Wipro was involved along with all research organizations for a long time. They have the opportunity to make products based on their learnings. Infosys, being a service company also can venture into value creating efforts. It need not be a product only. It can be a process.

Sam Pitroda licensed C-Dot technology to telecom providers. And Indian public sectors did have some good products and they did export to African nations in electronics, telecom and space research. I know that aviation was not a big success.

It is wrong to say Indians are not innovative.
For me if some one comes out with an auto-rickshaw and says it suits best the Indian needs inspite of the practice in the rest of the world, that is innovation. Honda introduced a 4-stroke two wheeler to save gas, that is innovation. Tata is working on a Rs2 Lakh car. That is innovation. M&M exports tractors and tillers. That is commendable.

There are indigeneous companies that give importance to R&D. Dr. Reddy Labs is a company that works on new medicines.

In IT, people are not trying. What is preventing an Indian company from making a mapping service for India? I am yet to see a service that gives end to end driving directions for India.
[quote]
I think there is more to the topic in terms of inherent regional/local political situation, lack of conducive atmosphere, innate nature and cultural compulsions not to think beyond obvious, lack of urge to seek seemingly unachievable etc.
[/quote]
This is a great observation and I can't agree more on that with you. But, some one has to break it, don't you think? Why can't leaders such as NRM give it a try.

I feel guilty myself about what you said above. Now, look at the forum. Everyone that wants to R2I wants to become managers. I am sure some of these folks have acquired some hard core technology that can be put to better use. But, we all want to join the bandwagon. That is our culture.

[tejasvee]

In IT, people are not trying. What is preventing an Indian company from making a mapping service for India? I am yet to see a service that gives end to end driving directions for India.[/quote]

You just have to keep your eyes and ears open. Innovations are always catered to the targete market.

A better question would be to figure out what are the latest innovations in tracking systems in India. As most people in India don't need a door to door mapping service, they don't spawn off many innovations.

At the same time, since majority of the mobile users are SMS addicts, there are brillilant innovations like 'Yelli Iddira' (where are you) service like this to track Bangalore public transport buses.

http://www.clinf.com/yi/

All innovations will be catered to the demanding audience. If people demand it, someone will figure out how to churn out an innovation!

[ksheer3]

[QUOTE=layman;20022
In IT, people are not trying. What is preventing an Indian company from making a mapping service for India? I am yet to see a service that gives end to end driving directions for India.


Just returned from India -- having visited several major metros and small towns. It is an interesting experience getting directions to a place or even a residence. It is as if there is no street address for where people live or work. From the most literate [PhDs, MDs] down to the shop keepers and policemen --- you are directed by landmarks rather than street names. {"Go to this colony; ask about this store; take the third lane on the right after the temple and opposite this travel agent". } Also people in TN live in colonies and nagars and they may or may not have street addresses. If they, do then there is the new ("pudiya enn") and old house number.
In smaller towns people live opposite (or next to) some "vip"s house -- like the local doctor or advocate (vakil) --- long after the VIP has moved on!!!
In Kolkatta street names change several times over the course of a few kilometers. My reference address in Kolkatta is more a description than an address {via this ; next to that and flat number x/y/z in building named 'pqrst'} -- you will not see a number on the address except the postal code !!! Oh BTW it is the pink building if you are planning to visit.:)

Even an Indian programmer will be challenged to develop a MapQuest for that!!!
ksheer3

[layman]

Just returned from India -- having visited several major metros and small towns. It is an interesting experience getting directions to a place or even a residence. It is as if there is no street address for where people live or work. From the most literate [PhDs, MDs] down to the shop keepers and policemen --- you are directed by landmarks rather than street names. {"Go to this colony; ask about this store; take the third lane on the right after the temple and opposite this travel agent". } Also people in TN live in colonies and nagars and they may or may not have street addresses. If they, do then there is the new ("pudiya enn") and old house number.
In smaller towns people live opposite (or next to) some "vip"s house -- like the local doctor or advocate (vakil) --- long after the VIP has moved on!!!
In Kolkatta street names change several times over the course of a few kilometers. My reference address in Kolkatta is more a description than an address {via this ; next to that and flat number x/y/z in building named 'pqrst'} -- you will not see a number on the address except the postal code !!! Oh BTW it is the pink building if you are planning to visit.:)

Even an Indian programmer will be challenged to develop a MapQuest for that!!!
ksheer3[/quote]
Most of the places in India has house numbers and street name. It may not be used for directions. That is a different story. How long are we going to go by landmarks and VIP's houses? And, how reliable is the current system. In my experience most of the time directions of word of mouth is wrong. People say, "Just 5 minutes away" and this 5 minutes in reality is 50 minutes. No one has tried mapping service seriously. OK, let them leave out places that do not have proper numbering. There are a very few places in US also without driving directions. If I can get driving directions for even 50% of the places I want to go, I will trust the accurate driving direction than relying on some unknown guy's advice.

[Suri]

Is this wishful thinking by Offshore detractors or is the bubble really bursting?

Captive Offshoring Centers Are Imploding