r2i forum

[QUOTE]SlutWalk renamed:

Organisers of India's first 'SlutWalk' have rebranded the event. The name has now been changed to 'Besharmi Morcha' which means 'Shameless Protest'.
The organisers feel that not all people in the national capital will understand the meaning of the word 'slut'. And more importantly may misinterpret the usage of the word for the protest. The organisers have finally settled down for 'Besharmi Morcha'.

[QUOTE]SlutWalk goes to India:
...
The SlutWalk was originally started by a group of women in Toronto in reaction to a Toronto Police-constable's statement: "Women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised." The movement spread like wildfire to the rest of the world and now Delhi is gearing up for the same.


Thoughts? Do such walks belong in India? Can a walk by women dressed in certain attire change the patriarchal mindset? :confused:

Who takes part or lets their daughters take part in such walks in India?

(Read about the planned morcha in Women's H&B thread, starting a thread here)

Blaming the victim for being victimized comes from a certain mindset. While that mindset is difficult to change, it can be changed by deep introspecting thought process. However I do not think that slutwalk will succeed changing the minds of most already in the camp of the Toronto Police officer, it may in fact work to strengthen such mind sets.

Their goal is creating awareness and perhaps they will impact younger minds that are not hard set with their messages. Prudent suggestions in dress based on locale should not be confused with blaming the victim and hence the message communication becomes very important.

Even the women marching in India, can challenge the Indian norms by exceeding limits within Indian social mores, but rather than become showpieces on the march for gawking eyes, the message and communication needs to be the primary focus.

I know for sure that if my uncle sees the morcha, he will say - look at those sluts - sorry, can't help it but that is what my uncle would say - perhaps, i should check with him instead of assuming and if my guess is correct, I should attempt to change his outlook and mindset.

here


and later this was the besharmi morcha in India
couple pix from india


Loool ! and surprisingly,.... hardly about a month ago,
a Rave party was raided in mumbai in which, Shakti Kappor and Vinod Khanna's sons were also caught !
last month's rave party raided


( Does not it, defeat the purpose of " Slut Walk Protection Rides " ?? ) :confused::confused::confused:

...........

modus_vivendi;401667Thoughts? Do such walks belong in India? Can a walk by women dressed in certain attire change the patriarchal mindset? :confused:

Who takes part or lets their daughters take part in such walks in India?

I think, it's just a simple protest ride. Nothing else.

Women / girls ( even men can join ) who participating in those rides, not necessarily have to wear half naked, show-up clothes nor,....
have to have into a slut like/body selling profession or even carrying those prostitue like thought process - of that kind !

Any men or women ( who thinks supporting for a good cause ) can support and join the ride, in a full sober dress.

All they are saying is, "Women can wear a little less or more clothes - sleeve or sleeveless, tight skirts or jeans,....whatsoever,.. as and when they please,
and that should not be in any case, be treated/considered as an enough good and valid reason to rape them."

That's the message, they wanna convey.

That's all.

.....

India is a deeply patriarchal society, one where age-old cultural ideologies are deep rooted. It's very difficult to counter such deep rooted thinking. I doubt this walk or any other such walks will do much to counter these type of mindsets. If anything, I suspect some will even get a perverted pleasure by leering at the women participating in the slut walk.
Just going by the initial backlash at even the suggestion of having such a walk, the very fact that the walk has become 'controversial', is a very good indication of where we stand as a society.
Many were outraged even by the name, and just the possibility that scantily dressed women might walk out and about freely was beyond tolerable. The name had to be changed to 'besharmi morcha' or as some others called it 'The pride stride for women', and the women were warned that if any limits of decency were to be broken, there would be 'consequences . The very fact that even the possibility of having such a walk happen in an Indian city has many people expressing outrage, while there's no outrage for the poor state of female safety and dignity and crimes against them in these cities, is a good enough indication, on where our social sensibilities lie.

Bhopal already had it's version of the slut walk, which bombed . So, that itself is an indication of the lack of understanding/empathy on the topic.
In the Indian version, women have decided to dress like they normally do, because as per them, in India for a girl, her mere existence is a good enough cause for her to get raped, so the provocative dressing isn't required for the walk.

I think when our rape laws define rape as 'attempt to outrage a woman's modesty', instead of an act of violence against her, (thereby opening up a loophole, where the woman's modesty could become a factor in the crime) we have a long way to go before a mere walk can change or even challenge the deep rooted biases.

There have been similar type of movements before this like Blank noise , Pink chaddi , & Mend the gap . All had limited reach before fading into oblivion .

While I do agree that something must be done, to bring attention to these issues in India, I doubt this walk will be able to do achieve anything solid. In this case though, I'll be happy to be proven wrong :( .

Willynilly, a nice summary.

I was wondering about the "patriarchal society" funda that I read in the second article quoted in OP:
This walk, the organisers hope, can bring about a change in the patriarchal mindset of the people in Delhi

Patriarchal society from wiki:
[QUOTE]Patriarchy is a social system in which the role of the male as the primary authority figure is central to social organization, and where fathers hold authority over women, children, and property. It implies the institutions of male rule and privilege, and is dependent on female subordination.

Intuitively and at a big picture level I get the idea how a patriarchal society might mean women have to toe the line and dress modestly etc... but how exactly does a patriarchal society force them to do this? Is one to conclude that if the society was mostly matriarchal like in some Kerala communities, then we would be blessed with a modern version of the Upper Cloth revolt? Meaning, women wearing modern (slutty?) dresses wouldn't be so much of a taboo?

I am somehow inclined to think that rather than patriarchal society, it might have to do with the undue importance given to family ijjat (respect in society) and girls being primarily in-charge of maintaining it. After marriage, it's probably the joint-family system or importance that adult children give to parental approval of self and spouse even after marriage.

Desi;401687
Even the women marching in India, can challenge the Indian norms by exceeding limits within Indian social mores, but rather than become showpieces on the march for gawking eyes, the message and communication needs to be the primary focus.

I totally support this movement. If this becomes a daily routine, people would soon start accepting this as norm and gawking and eventually the victimization will reduce over time, just like the skirts, mini have become common now in bombay compared to 60s and churidars are becoming common in south.


---
Having said that let me know when and where such a walk is taking place in my city, so I can gawk....oops I mean support. :)

VS007;401754 mini have become common now in bombay compared to 60s and churidars are becoming common in south.

:o you can't be serious, are churidars not considered decent in south India ?

willynilly;401764:o you can't be serious, are churidars not considered decent in south India ?

Not sure whether it is considered indecent, but I know quite a few women in their 30's & 40's who live in S.Indian metros and their family does not approve of them wearing salwar-kameez as married women are supposed and expected to wear only sarees.

There was a thread where we compared decency of saree vs salwar-kameez. : ) Really looong back. Hope it was in this forum and not another. : )

Added later: Found it. Here is a post that explains why salwar-kameez could be indecent. :) Posts above and below that add to it, including one post about a Madras High Court upholding Churidar as a preferred dress.

willynilly;401764:o you can't be serious, are churidars not considered decent in south India ?

The orginial Indian dress is saree, the churidars are all mughal,afghani, paki influence.