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Am I the only one who feels let down because of the rabid intolerance being displayed in the ongoing Ground Zero mosque issue? Somehow I always believed in the basic goodness and tolerance in the American society because of the openness with which they welcomed people like me. Despite this being not my country I feel hurt, almost personally, to see the tamasha created by the right-wingers. :( May be that's because over time I probably got attached to this society and its people as if they were my own. I feel hurt to see the values that I appreciated in this country being degraded. When I think of the recent developments like the Arizona law, the tirade against immigrants/ immigrant visas, and now this mosque issue, I get a feeling that this great country may just be showing signs of cracking under the combined pressures of an economic downturn, lack of a good leader and the rabid proliferation of right-wing hate-mongers. Makes me feel sad. May God Bless America! :emrose:

sandeepskar;316789Am the only one who feels let down because of the rabid intolerance being displayed in the ongoing Ground Zero mosque issue? Somehow I always believed in the basic goodness and tolerance in the American society because of the openness with which they welcomed people like me. Despite this being not my country I feel hurt, almost personally, to see the tamasha created by the right-wingers. :( May be that's because over time I probably got attached to this society and its people as if they were my own. I feel hurt to see the values that I appreciated in this country being degraded. When I think of the recent developments like the Arizona law, the tirade against immigrants/ immigrant visas, and now this mosque issue, I get a feeling that this great country may just be showing signs of cracking under the combined pressures of an economic downturn, lack of a good leader and the rabid proliferation of right-wing hate-mongers. Makes me feel sad. May God Bless America! :emrose:

I was wondering about this mosque thing. Every year between July 4th and August 15th, I go into a loop wondering about two countries, two allegiances etc. Anyway, about this Ground Zero mosque thing, yes, "the country stands for diversity, tolerance, the group should be allowed to build a mosque where they want, lets show the world the principles America was founded on, and the mosque will help dispel false impressions of Islam" etc etc., but looks like the folks or committee that bought that land in 2009, didn't have a PR person. While legally the group has a right and should be granted permission to build the mosque, I agree with Palin's thoughts on the insensitivity and thoughtlessness of the group at building a mosque in that location of all locations.

I don't think anything so huge is happening as the country is cracking or inclusive nature of its society changing, it is more like business as usual. Maybe against the backdrop of the economic downturn, other issues are appearing magnified.

Though, in my corner of the country, I do sigh each time I read about the two-steps backward progress for same gender marriages.

modus_vivendi;316793I was wondering about this mosque thing. Every year between July 4th and August 15th, I go into a loop wondering about two countries, two allegiances etc. Anyway, about this Ground Zero mosque thing, yes, "the country stands for diversity, tolerance, the group should be allowed to build a mosque where they want, lets show the world the principles America was founded on, and the mosque will help dispel false impressions of Islam" etc etc., but looks like the folks or committee that bought that land in 2009, didn't have a PR person. While legally the group has a right and should be granted permission to build the mosque, I agree with Palin's thoughts on the insensitivity and thoughtlessness of the group at building a mosque in that location of all locations.

I don't think anything so huge is happening as the country is cracking or inclusive nature of its society changing, it is more like business as usual. Maybe against the backdrop of the economic downturn, other issues are appearing magnified.

Though, in my corner of the country, I do sigh each time I read about the two-steps backward progress for same gender marriages.

+ 1. I too am with right wingers on this. Palin may be the stupidest politician in the country today but even she got this right.

modus_vivendi;316793While legally the group has a right and should be granted permission to build the mosque, I agree with Palin's thoughts on the insensitivity and thoughtlessness of the group at building a mosque in that location of all locations.

I don't see why anyone should see any insensitivity. That is pure nonsense propagated by people like Palin. Who flew the planes in the towers? American Muslims or Muslim Terrorists from Saudi? Who is being denied the right to worship at a location they want to? The Saudis or American citizens? Is the war against terrorists outside the US or American muslims in the US? Such insensitivity stuff is a hogwash to cover the underlying intolerance of the Palins and Becks. Going by their logic, one could make "special case" for anything and everything and bring up "sensitivities" of groups of people and deny religious rights to minorities. It is only under such difficult circumstances when principles of tolerance and religious freedom are tested and the true character of the people comes out. Else "religious freedom" and "tolerance" are just nice words written in a book that can be easily discarded to accommodate the whims of the majority.

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sandeepskar;316800I don't see why anyone should see any insensitivity. That is pure nonsense propagated by people like Palin. Who flew the planes in the towers? American Muslims or Muslim Terrorists from Saudi? Who is being denied the right to worship at a location they want to? The Saudis or American citizens? Is the war against terrorists outside the US or American muslims in the US? Such insensitivity stuff is a hogwash to cover the underlying intolerance of the Palins and Becks. Going by their logic, one could make "special case" for anything and everything and bring up "sensitivities" of groups of people and deny religious rights to minorities. It is only under such difficult circumstances when principles of tolerance and religious freedom are tested and the true character of the people comes out. Else "religious freedom" and "tolerance" are just nice words written in a book that can be easily discarded to accommodate the whims of the majority.

Maybe I was not clear. That group or similar groups should get the right to build what they want where they want. They should not be denied the right to worship at any location. "Religious freedom" and "tolerance" need not be sacrificed for the sake of sensitivities of any victims or their families.

I was saying that the group that is seeking the permission (and got it), is being insensitive, thoughtless and testing the tolerance of the local population, the 9/11 victims' families and the American population in general. I agree with Palin to the extent of pointing out the insensitivity etc. When she says that they should not be granted the right to build the mosque, I stop agreeing.

In other words, the group of Muslims building the mosque is not picking their victories well. : )

Like, a child molester released from jail, gets bounced around as no community wants him in their NIMBY : ), and he ends up in the same community as the child he molested. He legally has a right, has paid his dues, is declared 'reformed', and is ready to be back in the general population, but his living in that community would be insensitive. Only an example. Most probably, there is a law in place against such "placement upon release" in the community where the crime was committed and the group building the mosque has not committed any crime.

sandeepskar;316800I don't see why anyone should see any insensitivity. That is pure nonsense propagated by people like Palin. Who flew the planes in the towers? American Muslims or Muslim Terrorists from Saudi? Who is being denied the right to worship at a location they want to? The Saudis or American citizens? Is the war against terrorists outside the US or American muslims in the US? Such insensitivity stuff is a hogwash to cover the underlying intolerance of the Palins and Becks. Going by their logic, one could make "special case" for anything and everything and bring up "sensitivities" of groups of people and deny religious rights to minorities. It is only under such difficult circumstances when principles of tolerance and religious freedom are tested and the true character of the people comes out. Else "religious freedom" and "tolerance" are just nice words written in a book that can be easily discarded to accommodate the whims of the majority.

When Manhattan RE is still reeling under the effects of RE meltdown, this NY Post story does put a question mark on credibility of the people proposing to build the mosque there. If US govt. is 'allegedly' helping Rauf to promote Islam, the separation of church and state the constitution allows starts becoming blur. That's why even most liberals are baffled whether to support the building or side with people calling this as bluff.

modus_vivendi;316807 Maybe I was not clear. That group or similar groups should get the right to build what they want where they want. They should not be denied the right to worship at any location. "Religious freedom" and "tolerance" need not be sacrificed for the sake of sensitivities of any group. I was saying that the group that is seeking the permission (and got it), is being insensitive, thoughtless and testing the tolerance of the local population, the 9/11 victims' families and the American population in general.

Well, may be I was not clear. :) MV, the group is not doing anything but exercising their rights. It has been 9 years - 9 years! since 9/11 happened. And it is not even the American Muslim's fault that it happened!! What are they supposed to do? Live as second class citizens and lay low so as not to incur the wrath of the majority??

Let me give you an analogy that was being discussed a lot today. A girl that walks in a "revealing"dress on Indian streets - is she being thoughtless and testing the limits of patience of the sex-deprived men around her? NO!! She is enjoying her right/freedom to wear what she wants. She may get a backlash for her "imprudence" or "insensitivity" to the sex-deprived populace around her, but would you say it is her fault?? No. Weren't we all vehemently saying it is wrong to blame the woman and that she did not "invite" rape? The same concept applies here. Sure, American muslims may get a lot of backlash for this mosque, but I have no doubt in my mind who was right and who was wrong.

sandeepskar;316813 Sure, American muslims may get a lot of backlash for this mosque, but I have no doubt in my mind who was right and who was wrong.

So, the Muslim group is "right" for asserting their right? And the victims' families "wrong" for having some feelings of sensitivity around a mosque coming up at that spot?

I don't see any right and wrong here. I see only an insensitivity with the "right" being asserted thus.

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It is like this, if I own a bakery in a street frequented mostly by Muslims, and the rest of the shops/bakeries/restaurants in the street take measures to not display food openly during Ramadan (which BTW just started), I will also follow that as a courtesy to the fasting Muslims. I would have a right to fill up the showcase with all kinds of delicacies and not cover them up, but doing so would be insensitive. It would have been nice and sensitive if the Muslims had chosen a location other than that.

Such covering of potentially tempting food is a courtesy followed in cities and/or countries with high Muslim population.

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Now, please don't say I am comparing a woman in a revealing dress to a tandoori chicken being revealed in a restaurant's or shop's showcase/display :) :)

I don't want to see a mosque/synagogue/temple or any other religious place of worship near Ground Zero. It's just not feel right. If it comes to that, I would like to see the details of the funding for the mosque.

If you ask me, they should just renovate that Burlington Coat Factory. With winter around the corner, I need to buy a winter coat and I would be the first one if they open it there. It's a prime location and don't understand why they closed it down in the first place.