First, I know that by posting on a public forum like this one, I open myself to all kinds of responses, and not all of them will be gentle. Still, I feel lost and am stumbling to find my next step, so I will go ahead. I just request that you don't willfully be harsh in response.
Have been married for more than five years, have a child. Have had a good relationship with my husband, who has been a good spouse and a good father. Sadly now he is lying to me about a woman friend of his.
According to him she's the cliched "just a friend" (and not even that, really, he says). But he has been lying to me about meeting her outside, about talking to her on the phone, been erasing her calls, and other things. When I produced positive proof that he was lying, was when he said she was just a friend.
To put it shortly and bluntly, I think he's having an affair, emotional or otherwise.
Now, I've thought about it and I cannot stand the lying anymore. I am prepared to salvage things, but only if he wants to and comes clean about everything. I am not sure that he'll ever do that. He apparently does not see that I can forgive an affair, but I won't live with a person I can't trust (even though I told him so). Or worse, he understands and is just stringing me along as long as I'll go.
This is when I have to think the hard thoughts also, about this being the end. Besides the emotional aspect, I wonder if I have to think about my daughter and custody and things, and this is where my mind can not go one step further.
I intend to confront him, this time, without letting him what I know, and ask him to tell me everything. If he doesn't tell me atleast what I already know - or worse, if he says he wants to end our marriage - then I'm not sure what to do. I see myself packing up and moving out of the house with our child.
I don't know what I'm looking for - an objective view point maybe. What should I be thinking about? Am I overreacting?
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
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Desibabu19
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:50 am
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
[quote]
What should I be thinking about? Am I overreacting?
[/quote]
Maybe. Maybe not.
First and foremost is to work from objective data, not from emotions, not from assumptions, not from guesses.
You said he has been meeting her outside - how do you know that? How often? Does he miss work or come home late enough to have spent time elsewhere? Why do you suspect that she is more than a friend? Is it because he lied to you about phone call? How do you know he lied? Do you often check the caller ID and the phone calls he makes? Is that something that worried him to not even allow a phone call to a friend be known to you. Was he worried about a confrontation? Do you give him space or in general intrusive about his work, friends, etc?
How attached is he to the child?
Is this "other woman" a co worker? Does he spend time with her by missing work or coming home late? Is this other woman "attached"? Does she have kids? If not, why do you think an unattached woman is going for an attached person with a small child? Is he a dashing debonair or a big money maker?
You do not have to answer above questions. They were put in to make you think about some things. Often, in such situations, emotion overrules logic. In fact, some of my questions may seem insensitive, but that is not what they are intended to be. The intention is to prod serious thinking.
Here is what is needed by you to get a better handle on the situation:
What? This is the first thing to understand. What is going on here? What is the level of relationship? How do you know this (no guessing, but hard data) and what are their intentions?
Why? Why did this happen? Is it merely because an "opportunity presented" herself? Are there other reasons or without any pre thought?
How? How did this happen? Was he out looking for someone in a bar? Were they office mates? Is this a blast from the past?
Your Goals? What are you seeking? What are your thoughts? Do you want to salvage this? Why? Do you want to end this? Why? Do you have enough correct information to make such a decision?
What Next? If you were to salvage it? What next? What would be expections of each of the partner from other? What would be consequences or adjustments and how if expectations are not met.
If you do not want to salvage it, even then this same question of what next? is something you have to think about?
The above is all meant to prod your thinking to look at the situation in a detached, objective, unemotional and logical manner. This may well nigh be impossible by you as you are in thick of things. So the obvious solution then is a counsellor. Here is where I have some apprehensions. Marriage in western society is ended far too quickly in my opinion and such societal situation more often than not finds its way in the counsellor's suggestions. A good counsellor does not suggest but assists the client to arrive at solutions by helping to explore possible alternatives.
Being wary of counsellor because of reasons cited, the next suggestion would be to find someone trusted, sensible, logical to help you with the thought process and even here I have apprehensions. First of all it is difficult to find such a person and second even well meaning non professionals can do more damage than help.
So what should be your steps now? Well, one step at a time? I think you first need to better understand the WHAT? . Focus on that and not why and how yet. Get first a good grip on what and not from assumptions please - ain't going to be easy. If you genuinely find nothing, do not assume and if you do find something that seems "sinister", then move on to the next step.
Lastly and this is important, when one is in the midst of such a situation it reflects in interactions at home. If your interactions now because of the current situation are such that makes life at home uncomfortable for him, then think hard if he will seek comfort elsewhere. In other words, continue with your investigation to understand What? but maintain a cordial relationship at home.
The above is easy for me to say and perhaps some may seem insensitive too, but I think it should be looked at objectively, without emotion or sensitivity. I know easy for me to say.
Best wishes
DB19
What should I be thinking about? Am I overreacting?
[/quote]
Maybe. Maybe not.
First and foremost is to work from objective data, not from emotions, not from assumptions, not from guesses.
You said he has been meeting her outside - how do you know that? How often? Does he miss work or come home late enough to have spent time elsewhere? Why do you suspect that she is more than a friend? Is it because he lied to you about phone call? How do you know he lied? Do you often check the caller ID and the phone calls he makes? Is that something that worried him to not even allow a phone call to a friend be known to you. Was he worried about a confrontation? Do you give him space or in general intrusive about his work, friends, etc?
How attached is he to the child?
Is this "other woman" a co worker? Does he spend time with her by missing work or coming home late? Is this other woman "attached"? Does she have kids? If not, why do you think an unattached woman is going for an attached person with a small child? Is he a dashing debonair or a big money maker?
You do not have to answer above questions. They were put in to make you think about some things. Often, in such situations, emotion overrules logic. In fact, some of my questions may seem insensitive, but that is not what they are intended to be. The intention is to prod serious thinking.
Here is what is needed by you to get a better handle on the situation:
What? This is the first thing to understand. What is going on here? What is the level of relationship? How do you know this (no guessing, but hard data) and what are their intentions?
Why? Why did this happen? Is it merely because an "opportunity presented" herself? Are there other reasons or without any pre thought?
How? How did this happen? Was he out looking for someone in a bar? Were they office mates? Is this a blast from the past?
Your Goals? What are you seeking? What are your thoughts? Do you want to salvage this? Why? Do you want to end this? Why? Do you have enough correct information to make such a decision?
What Next? If you were to salvage it? What next? What would be expections of each of the partner from other? What would be consequences or adjustments and how if expectations are not met.
If you do not want to salvage it, even then this same question of what next? is something you have to think about?
The above is all meant to prod your thinking to look at the situation in a detached, objective, unemotional and logical manner. This may well nigh be impossible by you as you are in thick of things. So the obvious solution then is a counsellor. Here is where I have some apprehensions. Marriage in western society is ended far too quickly in my opinion and such societal situation more often than not finds its way in the counsellor's suggestions. A good counsellor does not suggest but assists the client to arrive at solutions by helping to explore possible alternatives.
Being wary of counsellor because of reasons cited, the next suggestion would be to find someone trusted, sensible, logical to help you with the thought process and even here I have apprehensions. First of all it is difficult to find such a person and second even well meaning non professionals can do more damage than help.
So what should be your steps now? Well, one step at a time? I think you first need to better understand the WHAT? . Focus on that and not why and how yet. Get first a good grip on what and not from assumptions please - ain't going to be easy. If you genuinely find nothing, do not assume and if you do find something that seems "sinister", then move on to the next step.
Lastly and this is important, when one is in the midst of such a situation it reflects in interactions at home. If your interactions now because of the current situation are such that makes life at home uncomfortable for him, then think hard if he will seek comfort elsewhere. In other words, continue with your investigation to understand What? but maintain a cordial relationship at home.
The above is easy for me to say and perhaps some may seem insensitive too, but I think it should be looked at objectively, without emotion or sensitivity. I know easy for me to say.
Best wishes
DB19
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lostin2007
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:34 pm
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
Desibabu,
Thank you for the response. It means a lot.
You said he has been meeting her outside - how do you know that?
He had told me he met her for coffee a few times (at our last confrontation).
How often?
According to him, four or five times a couple of months ago. I suspect it's more, I do not know that.
Does he miss work or come home late enough to have spent time elsewhere?
No.
Why do you suspect that she is more than a friend?
Because of his need to keep his phone calls and meetings with her secret.
Is it because he lied to you about phone call? How do you know he lied?
Partly. He was on the phone with her when I entered a room. He hurriedly talked about a work issue and hung up. When asked, he said it was somebody at work. Later when I checked his call records, the one phone call was deleted. When I asked him about it, he tried to cover up. When asked if I could check the online phone records, he said he had lied and was on the phone with the other woman, but that she was just a friend, that she was lonely and just needed conversation. He said he was concerned that I might not approve of them being friends that way.
Do you often check the caller ID and the phone calls he makes?
I didn't before I found him on the suspicious phone call. Now I do occasionally.
Is that something that worried him to not even allow a phone call to a friend be known to you.
I don't think so. I'm not generally jealous (but I am jealous now).
Was he worried about a confrontation?
I don't know.
Do you give him space or in general intrusive about his work, friends, etc?
I give him a lot of space. I don't know if I can be objective about that.
How attached is he to the child?
Very.
Is this "other woman" a co worker?
Yes.
Does he spend time with her by missing work or coming home late?
I don't know. His meetings with her were usually on the weekends. Honestly I don't know if he's still meeting with her outside, it's only a guess as you said.
Is this other woman "attached"? Does she have kids?
She is married without kids. Her husband is not presently in the country.
If not, why do you think an unattached woman is going for an attached person with a small child? Is he a dashing debonair or a big money maker?
I don't know her very well. I don't know if I can be objective about my husband either. It might be that they are both lonely (he has talked to me before about not spending enough time with him because I'm too preoccupied taking care of our child).
Two months ago, he apologized to me for being stupid (he said he had done nothing more than that - be stupid) and said he'd not meet her or call her secretly again. She is his co-worker, so he still sees her everyday.
Two weeks ago, I found him lying about a phone call again. He admitted his lie, told me he was just helping her with some financial advice. He told me that her husband is now back, and things are back to normal. But this week, I found that her husband is still in India (I happen to know and read his blog). That didn't sound good, and was the straw that broke my back.
I don't know how to proceed with finding out the definitive answer to What. I also find it very difficult to act normal while I don't feel very normal inside.
Thank you for the response. It means a lot.
You said he has been meeting her outside - how do you know that?
He had told me he met her for coffee a few times (at our last confrontation).
How often?
According to him, four or five times a couple of months ago. I suspect it's more, I do not know that.
Does he miss work or come home late enough to have spent time elsewhere?
No.
Why do you suspect that she is more than a friend?
Because of his need to keep his phone calls and meetings with her secret.
Is it because he lied to you about phone call? How do you know he lied?
Partly. He was on the phone with her when I entered a room. He hurriedly talked about a work issue and hung up. When asked, he said it was somebody at work. Later when I checked his call records, the one phone call was deleted. When I asked him about it, he tried to cover up. When asked if I could check the online phone records, he said he had lied and was on the phone with the other woman, but that she was just a friend, that she was lonely and just needed conversation. He said he was concerned that I might not approve of them being friends that way.
Do you often check the caller ID and the phone calls he makes?
I didn't before I found him on the suspicious phone call. Now I do occasionally.
Is that something that worried him to not even allow a phone call to a friend be known to you.
I don't think so. I'm not generally jealous (but I am jealous now).
Was he worried about a confrontation?
I don't know.
Do you give him space or in general intrusive about his work, friends, etc?
I give him a lot of space. I don't know if I can be objective about that.
How attached is he to the child?
Very.
Is this "other woman" a co worker?
Yes.
Does he spend time with her by missing work or coming home late?
I don't know. His meetings with her were usually on the weekends. Honestly I don't know if he's still meeting with her outside, it's only a guess as you said.
Is this other woman "attached"? Does she have kids?
She is married without kids. Her husband is not presently in the country.
If not, why do you think an unattached woman is going for an attached person with a small child? Is he a dashing debonair or a big money maker?
I don't know her very well. I don't know if I can be objective about my husband either. It might be that they are both lonely (he has talked to me before about not spending enough time with him because I'm too preoccupied taking care of our child).
Two months ago, he apologized to me for being stupid (he said he had done nothing more than that - be stupid) and said he'd not meet her or call her secretly again. She is his co-worker, so he still sees her everyday.
Two weeks ago, I found him lying about a phone call again. He admitted his lie, told me he was just helping her with some financial advice. He told me that her husband is now back, and things are back to normal. But this week, I found that her husband is still in India (I happen to know and read his blog). That didn't sound good, and was the straw that broke my back.
I don't know how to proceed with finding out the definitive answer to What. I also find it very difficult to act normal while I don't feel very normal inside.
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Chicago Desi
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:24 am
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
I would suggest a guerilla warfare approach to the situation that may or may not appeal to you.
Let a few days pass and make sure everything at home is going smoothly. Then invite this woman for dinner on a weekend (make sure you tell your husband you are doing it before you do it. He may object but then you should say that since she is just a friend, you would like to get to know her as a friend as well).
Once you have her over, be nice to her, let her get to know you and your daughter very well. Let her see that your husband loves his daughter very much and you guys have a near perfect life. (You will need to show a lot of emotional maturity and control to pull this event off). Then make a friend out of her and start calling her once in a while (every two days or so). Develop some hobbies with her and take some classes together etc.
Once she knows what you and your husband have at stake, she will back off. Once she is your friend, she will find it too hard to go behind your back and want to do things with your husband. She is probably just lonely and needs some company. By making her a family friend, you will help her overcome her loneliness. :cool:
If you take the legal route, you will get nowhere, except heartache for yourself, your child and your husband as well.
Let a few days pass and make sure everything at home is going smoothly. Then invite this woman for dinner on a weekend (make sure you tell your husband you are doing it before you do it. He may object but then you should say that since she is just a friend, you would like to get to know her as a friend as well).
Once you have her over, be nice to her, let her get to know you and your daughter very well. Let her see that your husband loves his daughter very much and you guys have a near perfect life. (You will need to show a lot of emotional maturity and control to pull this event off). Then make a friend out of her and start calling her once in a while (every two days or so). Develop some hobbies with her and take some classes together etc.
Once she knows what you and your husband have at stake, she will back off. Once she is your friend, she will find it too hard to go behind your back and want to do things with your husband. She is probably just lonely and needs some company. By making her a family friend, you will help her overcome her loneliness. :cool:
If you take the legal route, you will get nowhere, except heartache for yourself, your child and your husband as well.
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lostin2007
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:34 pm
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
Chicago Desi,
Thank you for the suggestion.
She had already been at our place for dinner more than once. We have been to her place for dinner once. She knows my daughter, who in turn knows and adores her. My husband had even taken along our daughter to a couple of his secret meetings with her.
It was my daughter who was the first one to innocently let me know that she had seen this "Aunty" at a coffee place.
The other woman knows what is at stake, and I'm not sure I have the emotional maturity to be her friend.
Thank you for the suggestion.
She had already been at our place for dinner more than once. We have been to her place for dinner once. She knows my daughter, who in turn knows and adores her. My husband had even taken along our daughter to a couple of his secret meetings with her.
It was my daughter who was the first one to innocently let me know that she had seen this "Aunty" at a coffee place.
The other woman knows what is at stake, and I'm not sure I have the emotional maturity to be her friend.
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LLLLWhenR2I
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:12 am
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
It seems like situation is not out of control and various steps could be taken to bring back the relationship on track. By situation not out of control I mean, your spouse is not physical with you and he still lies about things that he is doing (means he still has the shame or no guts to tell you about what's cooking)
Multiple approaches should be taken to bring back the life.
Multiple approaches should be taken to bring back the life.
Start with changing yourself but not so much that it becomes apparent.
Go out for mini vacations ehere you both get time to talk about themselves. If there are issues you may want to sort it out then.
Not that I am advising you to change or taking your spouse side but you will have to take the initiative keeping all egos aside.
Go out for a daily night walk.
These small chores will give you time to talk.
Main aspect is commmunication. Do not let this go away. Communicate communicate and communicate.
Since they are coworkers and you already have invited her; now is the time to invite more co-workers along with it and try to sense and make judgement whether your concerns are real.
Get your MIL/FIL to stay with you for a while and let your other half know that you care for them as well.
Do not display your behavior as being too judgemental and give ample space to him.
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Chicago Desi
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:24 am
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
#6, Great suggestions.
OP, This is a situation that needs to be handled with care. You both have a lot to lose. I hope he realizes that. I think he is being immature and not being very responsible. Get a feel for what it would mean for him to lose you and your daughter. The other woman is married too and she too has a lot to lose. I don't think what they have is sustainable by any means. Someone needs to shake them up and wake them from their infatuations. Worse comes to worse, you can get a family member (from his side) involved, but that will cause him to hold a grudge against you.
As #6 has suggested, take the high road. Something somewhere is broken in your relationship. Use this as an opportunity to fix it for good.
OP, This is a situation that needs to be handled with care. You both have a lot to lose. I hope he realizes that. I think he is being immature and not being very responsible. Get a feel for what it would mean for him to lose you and your daughter. The other woman is married too and she too has a lot to lose. I don't think what they have is sustainable by any means. Someone needs to shake them up and wake them from their infatuations. Worse comes to worse, you can get a family member (from his side) involved, but that will cause him to hold a grudge against you.
As #6 has suggested, take the high road. Something somewhere is broken in your relationship. Use this as an opportunity to fix it for good.
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IndianByDefault
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:22 pm
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
I don't know if you have already considered this option but how about confronting the other woman? She is either gonna confess if she has any romantic interests in your husband or deny it (honestly or dishonestly). Either way its better than speculating what the heck is going on between her and your husband. If she does deny it and you do not trust her entirely (of course this is based on how well you can judge her by her reaction to your question) then its time to confront your husband either through his family or directly yourself. If she confesses then depending on your love for your husband you can a) tell her to take a hike or b) tell him to take a hike.
There needs to be an effort from both parties to reconcile any differences between you including following the suggestions that LLLWhenR2I has given. But IMHO that comes later. First you need to find out for sure if your husband is cheating on you and if there is anything more to this "friendship" with the other woman. From your post it doesn't seem to me like you are a weak woman who is going to let your husband dictate what a marriage is to you. Then don't let it happen. Get things cleared up. If saving your family is going to cost him his friendship with this lady then so be it. No friendship is that important.
There needs to be an effort from both parties to reconcile any differences between you including following the suggestions that LLLWhenR2I has given. But IMHO that comes later. First you need to find out for sure if your husband is cheating on you and if there is anything more to this "friendship" with the other woman. From your post it doesn't seem to me like you are a weak woman who is going to let your husband dictate what a marriage is to you. Then don't let it happen. Get things cleared up. If saving your family is going to cost him his friendship with this lady then so be it. No friendship is that important.
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lostin2007
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:34 pm
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
#6, #7
Thanks for your suggestions and advice. It makes sense that I should be spending more time with him and talking to him more.
I would like to get closure on what's happening first (if anything beyond easily explained-away lies is happening). I hope that I've been making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm almost ready to erase this out of my mind, and pretend I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary, but that's my fear talking.
I will think about what you all said, once I start to think clearly.
Thanks for your suggestions and advice. It makes sense that I should be spending more time with him and talking to him more.
I would like to get closure on what's happening first (if anything beyond easily explained-away lies is happening). I hope that I've been making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm almost ready to erase this out of my mind, and pretend I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary, but that's my fear talking.
I will think about what you all said, once I start to think clearly.
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lostin2007
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:34 pm
Dealing with Infidelity: Help
IndianByDefault,
It would take a lot to confront the woman without losing dignity. Besides, I would be confronting my husband's co-worker. Whatever is happening, I can't imagine the consequences of doing that would be good.
I would really like my husband to see how destructive his "friendship" is for us, and want to be straightforward with me again.
I know how bad it would be for our daughter if I were hasty. But he is my husband, not my property that I can go tell another woman to lay her hands off, and he is not a child that I can ask his parents to tell him to behave.
Thanks for your kind words.
It would take a lot to confront the woman without losing dignity. Besides, I would be confronting my husband's co-worker. Whatever is happening, I can't imagine the consequences of doing that would be good.
I would really like my husband to see how destructive his "friendship" is for us, and want to be straightforward with me again.
I know how bad it would be for our daughter if I were hasty. But he is my husband, not my property that I can go tell another woman to lay her hands off, and he is not a child that I can ask his parents to tell him to behave.
Thanks for your kind words.