I discussed the possibility of my R2I with my immediate family members during the recent vacation in India. Interestingly, they were so amused by my decision and did pose opposing views/hypothetical questions ,for which i'm still searching for answers. I agree that most people R2I-ing have family ties back home and are going back to their roots. However,I know that the decision to R2I or not is solely mine,but a human can not survive all alone by self and is always a part of a society.
Here are the questions that were asked to me :
1.What would have happened to this great country if the early settlers were to R2 to wherever they originally came from ?
2.When so many people from south of the border come here for a"better life" ,why should i, being an educated ,sincere ,law abiding tax payer does not want to continue to offer my services for the country that pays for me now and later in the life ?
3.R2I means compromising the quality of life that one have had experienced during their stay in USA ?
4.So,if a person R2I's after 15 years, this means that s/he have "stayed" in this country and have not actually "lived life" all those years.
5.Having the USC is just a back up ,and one can come back to the country if things does not auger well in India -issue of patriotism/loyalty
6.Again,compromising on kids education which for the most part in Indian school system is "mugging up the lessons and not learning the concepts needed for life" ,the morality and the ethics part which are inculcated in the young minds the Indian way....
7.Expose kids to corruption,scams and the notion-it is right to break the law and "chalta hain" attitude ?
8.R2I-ing professional compromising on the responsibility,accountability and ethics part ?
I look forward for answers from the fellow forum members. One "wise uncle" will also be reading your replies :-) .Thank you.
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Here is my jobless answers (too much time for me to spare). I am R2I'ed guy 11 years and still counting. I recently remember in some other thread, some people were passionately arguing like how big picture economy in India / US etc. I think this big picture talks are more of fun passing time talks. What matters is what is there for you ? Only question you have to ask yourself, you being what you are, do you have some thing better to R2I or LIA, and choose that.
Here are the questions that were asked to me :
1.What would have happened to this great country if the early settlers were to R2 to wherever they originally came from ?
A: Like my statement above, out of your domain and controll. They came & settled here, if for them it was a good option. You will go somewhere (or stay) if that is a good option. I dont probably even understand this question or sentiment. I studied computers, say great thing. So what would happen if everybody studied only computers, & no one doctors & engineering ? Similarly for them coming & settling here was good. May be it is good if you if you R2I.
2.When so many people from south of the border come here for a"better life" ,why should i, being an educated ,sincere ,law abiding tax payer does not want to continue to offer my services for the country that pays for me now and later in the life ?
A: Sorry, still not even able to relate this. Infact answer is within this itself. May be for people south of border non educated, non sincere non law abiding tax payer, this is good (sorry I dont mean this literally, trying to make a point), and may be for you educated etc. it is good to R2I. Even putting it correctly, and seriously, for a person with lower skill level like worker class, service class etc. may be US is better option. Being a janitor or nanny or house keeping service is probably better in US, than may be in Mexico or India. But if you are Software Engineer with higher pay scales, may be (I am not saying it is mind you), R2I works better. It is like saying when one can visit niagara falls such a beautiful place, why should I visit Yellowstone park. Some will visit that some will visit this ? I dont even associate with the term rendering service. Even when I was there in US, I worked with the assumption, I am rendering service to myself. And quitting job & moving to India is no difference if I quit say a job in Oracle & moved to Apple.
3.R2I means compromising the quality of life that one have had experienced during their stay in USA ?
4.So,if a person R2I's after 15 years, this means that s/he have "stayed" in this country and have not actually "lived life" all those years.
5.Having the USC is just a back up ,and one can come back to the country if things does not auger well in India -issue of patriotism/loyalty
6.Again,compromising on kids education which for the most part in Indian school system is "mugging up the lessons and not learning the concepts needed for life" ,the morality and the ethics part which are inculcated in the young minds the Indian way....
7.Expose kids to corruption,scams and the notion-it is right to break the law and "chalta hain" attitude ?
8.R2I-ing professional compromising on the responsibility,accountability and ethics part ?
A: 3-8. This is your call of risk. If you think you get only these & percieve it as negatives only, and there isnt any positives with your sense of living in India, obvious call to be LIA. The way in which I thought this, is , these are beyond me, and not terrible enough to affect me. Kids education is even for me, you get some, lose some, and anyway everyone succeeds in education nowadays. You put up with lower professionalism to get the Indian society life.
This is my wise crack.
Here are the questions that were asked to me :
1.What would have happened to this great country if the early settlers were to R2 to wherever they originally came from ?
A: Like my statement above, out of your domain and controll. They came & settled here, if for them it was a good option. You will go somewhere (or stay) if that is a good option. I dont probably even understand this question or sentiment. I studied computers, say great thing. So what would happen if everybody studied only computers, & no one doctors & engineering ? Similarly for them coming & settling here was good. May be it is good if you if you R2I.
2.When so many people from south of the border come here for a"better life" ,why should i, being an educated ,sincere ,law abiding tax payer does not want to continue to offer my services for the country that pays for me now and later in the life ?
A: Sorry, still not even able to relate this. Infact answer is within this itself. May be for people south of border non educated, non sincere non law abiding tax payer, this is good (sorry I dont mean this literally, trying to make a point), and may be for you educated etc. it is good to R2I. Even putting it correctly, and seriously, for a person with lower skill level like worker class, service class etc. may be US is better option. Being a janitor or nanny or house keeping service is probably better in US, than may be in Mexico or India. But if you are Software Engineer with higher pay scales, may be (I am not saying it is mind you), R2I works better. It is like saying when one can visit niagara falls such a beautiful place, why should I visit Yellowstone park. Some will visit that some will visit this ? I dont even associate with the term rendering service. Even when I was there in US, I worked with the assumption, I am rendering service to myself. And quitting job & moving to India is no difference if I quit say a job in Oracle & moved to Apple.
3.R2I means compromising the quality of life that one have had experienced during their stay in USA ?
4.So,if a person R2I's after 15 years, this means that s/he have "stayed" in this country and have not actually "lived life" all those years.
5.Having the USC is just a back up ,and one can come back to the country if things does not auger well in India -issue of patriotism/loyalty
6.Again,compromising on kids education which for the most part in Indian school system is "mugging up the lessons and not learning the concepts needed for life" ,the morality and the ethics part which are inculcated in the young minds the Indian way....
7.Expose kids to corruption,scams and the notion-it is right to break the law and "chalta hain" attitude ?
8.R2I-ing professional compromising on the responsibility,accountability and ethics part ?
A: 3-8. This is your call of risk. If you think you get only these & percieve it as negatives only, and there isnt any positives with your sense of living in India, obvious call to be LIA. The way in which I thought this, is , these are beyond me, and not terrible enough to affect me. Kids education is even for me, you get some, lose some, and anyway everyone succeeds in education nowadays. You put up with lower professionalism to get the Indian society life.
This is my wise crack.
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Good questions. My opinions...
1.What would have happened to this great country if the early settlers were to R2 to wherever they originally came from ?
All the USCs in this forum would have learned the history of this great country and why the settlers came here. It's for freedom, right to practice any religion etc. When they started the journey, they were sure that they were not going back to their country of origin. They also didn't make a trip every year and invested in real estate back home :) . So, now that we are in this country for more than 10 years, we are comparing us to the early settlers which is not right. If one wants to stay here forever that's a good decision too but we don't have to compare us with the early settlers.
2.When so many people from south of the border come here for a"better life" ,why should i, being an educated ,sincere ,law abiding tax payer does not want to continue to offer my services for the country that pays for me now and later in the life ?
There are also so many people going to Singapore for doing low level jobs from India (Tamil Nadu etc). What's the point? If a human being can't feed their family, they will have to do anything. Not sure why it would relate to you.
3.R2I means compromising the quality of life that one have had experienced during their stay in USA ?
Define quality of Life, then you will get answers. The point is that this differs between person to person based on their maturity and their requirements. For some, it's good roads and pollution free atmosphere. For some, it's retiring from the rat race and being with their extended family
.
4.So,if a person R2I's after 15 years, this means that s/he have "stayed" in this country and have not actually "lived life" all those years.
Depends on the person. No generic answer here. Some "live" in USA for 10 years and then "live" in India for the rest of life. Some "stay" in USA
forever and never "live".
5.Having the USC is just a bak up ,and one can come back to the country if things does not auger well in India -issue of patriotism/loyalty
Contradicts with 1) here to show how confused we are. If you compare yourself with early settlers, why worry about patriotism / loyalty to India? This shows that you still have ties to our great country India which is why this discussion.
6.Again,compromising on kids education which for the most part in Indian school system is "mugging up the lessons and not learning the concepts needed for life" ,the morality and the ethics part which are inculcated in the young minds the Indian way....
The last time I checked, there was a debate going on about the education system in the USA especially science and Math compared to Asian countries. It's the graduation courses that USA leads the world. Again, there are brilliant kids both in USA and India. This also depends on the parents.
7.Expose kids to corruption,scams and the notion-it is right to break the law and "chalta hain" attitude ?
Didn't we all turn out good?
8.R2I-ing professional compromising on the responsibility,accountability and ethics part ?
what ethics and responsibility? Not clear.
1.What would have happened to this great country if the early settlers were to R2 to wherever they originally came from ?
All the USCs in this forum would have learned the history of this great country and why the settlers came here. It's for freedom, right to practice any religion etc. When they started the journey, they were sure that they were not going back to their country of origin. They also didn't make a trip every year and invested in real estate back home :) . So, now that we are in this country for more than 10 years, we are comparing us to the early settlers which is not right. If one wants to stay here forever that's a good decision too but we don't have to compare us with the early settlers.
2.When so many people from south of the border come here for a"better life" ,why should i, being an educated ,sincere ,law abiding tax payer does not want to continue to offer my services for the country that pays for me now and later in the life ?
There are also so many people going to Singapore for doing low level jobs from India (Tamil Nadu etc). What's the point? If a human being can't feed their family, they will have to do anything. Not sure why it would relate to you.
3.R2I means compromising the quality of life that one have had experienced during their stay in USA ?
Define quality of Life, then you will get answers. The point is that this differs between person to person based on their maturity and their requirements. For some, it's good roads and pollution free atmosphere. For some, it's retiring from the rat race and being with their extended family
.
4.So,if a person R2I's after 15 years, this means that s/he have "stayed" in this country and have not actually "lived life" all those years.
Depends on the person. No generic answer here. Some "live" in USA for 10 years and then "live" in India for the rest of life. Some "stay" in USA
forever and never "live".
5.Having the USC is just a bak up ,and one can come back to the country if things does not auger well in India -issue of patriotism/loyalty
Contradicts with 1) here to show how confused we are. If you compare yourself with early settlers, why worry about patriotism / loyalty to India? This shows that you still have ties to our great country India which is why this discussion.
6.Again,compromising on kids education which for the most part in Indian school system is "mugging up the lessons and not learning the concepts needed for life" ,the morality and the ethics part which are inculcated in the young minds the Indian way....
The last time I checked, there was a debate going on about the education system in the USA especially science and Math compared to Asian countries. It's the graduation courses that USA leads the world. Again, there are brilliant kids both in USA and India. This also depends on the parents.
7.Expose kids to corruption,scams and the notion-it is right to break the law and "chalta hain" attitude ?
Didn't we all turn out good?
8.R2I-ing professional compromising on the responsibility,accountability and ethics part ?
what ethics and responsibility? Not clear.
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aden123;3609881.What would have happened to this great country if the early settlers were to R2 to wherever they originally came from ?
Half of them were fugitives. They would have landed in a jail somewhere. Not a jail like in usa and probably even worse then Indian jails.
Many others did not see a future for themselves back home(R2?) and had no ties pulling them back.
They did not have to wait ages to get a work permit. Their wives (if they brought them with themselves) started to work the next day.
Free land (extorted from natives) was available, only a gun was needed.
So many more things........
But this great country would have been exploited whoever came after them.
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Fugitives? America was land where people came to escape religious persecution,famine or land of opportunities and free enterprise.
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indigoyogi
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VS007;361049Fugitives? America was land where people came to escape religious persecution,famine or land of opportunities and free enterprise.
Fugitives, because they escaped religious persecution in Europe.
Fugitive: Someone who flees from an uncongenial situation.
PS: I admit, this term is almost always used for people evading the law nowadays.
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Thank you for your responses..liked your "glass half full" perspectives !
Why not a Desi--> USC take up federal jobs and continue to live in this country ?
I happened to meet with few first gen Desi's who have imigrated to this country in 60's and 70's and they are surprised by the R2I trend in recent immigrants. One commented -India's growing prosperity is analogous with growing corruption and lawlessness.
And these people are involved in few charities in this country - catering to the Americans in need ,rather than donating to overseas charities....
Why not a Desi--> USC take up federal jobs and continue to live in this country ?
I happened to meet with few first gen Desi's who have imigrated to this country in 60's and 70's and they are surprised by the R2I trend in recent immigrants. One commented -India's growing prosperity is analogous with growing corruption and lawlessness.
And these people are involved in few charities in this country - catering to the Americans in need ,rather than donating to overseas charities....
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aden123;362341Thank you for your responses..liked your "glass half full" perspectives !
Why not a Desi--> USC take up federal jobs and continue to live in this country ?
I happened to meet with few first gen Desi's who have imigrated to this country in 60's and 70's and they are surprised by the R2I trend in recent immigrants. One commented -India's growing prosperity is analogous with growing corruption and lawlessness.
And these people are involved in few charities in this country - catering to the Americans in need ,rather than donating to overseas charities....
May be I dont understand what you are saying above. Why should a Desi-USC take federal jobs ? If they want to live in US they can work in private companies, or retire. And what is this analogy of prosperity & corruption & lawlessness. How are these related. And why is living or not living in US is tied to charity in US or abroad. It looks like if were to guess subtly you are saying dont R2I and be LIA which is fine & most common case, but I am not able to follow the style of arguments you are putting here.
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srinpo;362343May be I dont understand what you are saying above. Why should a Desi-USC take federal jobs ? If they want to live in US they can work in private companies, or retire. And what is this analogy of prosperity & corruption & lawlessness. How are these related. And why is living or not living in US is tied to charity in US or abroad. It looks like if were to guess subtly you are saying dont R2I and be LIA which is fine & most common case, but I am not able to follow the style of arguments you are putting here.
srinpo;362343May be I dont understand what you are saying above. Why should a Desi-USC take federal jobs ? If they want to live in US they can work in private companies, or retire. And what is this analogy of prosperity & corruption & lawlessness. How are these related. And why is living or not living in US is tied to charity in US or abroad. It looks like if were to guess subtly you are saying dont R2I and be LIA which is fine & most common case, but I am not able to follow the style of arguments you are putting here.
Let me try to be clearer and solve the ambiguity of my previous post. This may be tangent to the R21 we are discussing here,but here is another perspective-
1.Being an USC is an advantage for many highly qualified Indian Americans ,and by taking up a federal job, one can work/serve for the country.
2.The views expressed on corruption,lawlessness in India nowadays are by the first generation Indian immigrants. For them, America is their "home" and they get to read/know about the current state of affairs in India from the media. That was not how the country was when they had left years ago.
3.Charity work by Indian Americans --- Americans helping fellow citizens in need rather than donating to an organization based elsewhere.
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aden123;362349Let me try to be clearer and solve the ambiguity of my previous post. This may be tangent to the R21 we are discussing here,but here is another perspective-
1.Being an USC is an advantage for many highly qualified Indian Americans ,and by taking up a federal job, one can work/serve for the country.
2.The views expressed on corruption,lawlessness in India nowadays are by the first generation Indian immigrants. For them, America is their "home" and they get to read/know about the current state of affairs in India from the media. That was not how the country was when they had left years ago.
3.Charity work by Indian Americans --- Americans helping fellow citizens in need rather than donating to an organization based elsewhere.
1. Serve the country: Take up federal job, fine. However, many of the early settlers' descendants would appreciate it if we r2i and avoid stealing any jobs at all.
2. I doubt that lawlessness/corruption in India was any different when the first gens left years ago --- it just gets more publicised and they now have a US reference point as well. Btw, I doubt the US is the same country it was 30 yrs ago -- wall street clout, lobbying levels, apathy to public investment, etc does concern many people living there.
3. Good for them.
I don't really understand the point of these questions either. If you want to LIA, I would hope you get integrated with the community, serve it, etc. But I have yet to hear of someone decide against R2I cos they "owe it to this great country" -- many are grateful for the opportunities but the r2i/lia decision comes down to day-to-day practicalities like jobs, salary, infrastructure, etc.