Families are so siloed these days, even accommodating one's parents or in laws into post R2I lives sometimes becomes a serious question mark. On the other extreme, there are joint family situations and some are willing to lose their islolation and embrace joint families with sisters, brothers and their familes etc. Are you either contemplating or have R2Ied to live in a joint family ? What do you gain? What do you lose? Do joint families make adjustments easier or harder after R2I?
This article was the trigger for this thread.
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-in-photos-world-s-largest-family-in-india/20111103.htm
R2I and living in joint families
R2I and living in joint families
That would be some joint family!
It depends on whose family it is going to be. Your wife is more likely to have issues with returning to your joint (extended) family and you are more likely to have issues if you are going to be staying with her family.
The pros as I see it are:
1. A good support system
2. Children getting to know and mingle with aunts, uncles, cousins etc.
3. Being able to be with elders during their last days
4. A generally lively atmosphere in most cases
Cons:
1. Potential clash of attitudes, principles, way of doing things (esp between MIL-DIL)
2. Relatively less privacy
3. Foreign-born kids might be overwhelmed by the JF dynamics
Living with just parents or parents-in-law and living with a proper JF with siblings is a different ball game altogether. In my opinion persons having lived abroad for many years need to be thick-skinned to be peaceful in an Indian joint family.
It depends on whose family it is going to be. Your wife is more likely to have issues with returning to your joint (extended) family and you are more likely to have issues if you are going to be staying with her family.
The pros as I see it are:
1. A good support system
2. Children getting to know and mingle with aunts, uncles, cousins etc.
3. Being able to be with elders during their last days
4. A generally lively atmosphere in most cases
Cons:
1. Potential clash of attitudes, principles, way of doing things (esp between MIL-DIL)
2. Relatively less privacy
3. Foreign-born kids might be overwhelmed by the JF dynamics
Living with just parents or parents-in-law and living with a proper JF with siblings is a different ball game altogether. In my opinion persons having lived abroad for many years need to be thick-skinned to be peaceful in an Indian joint family.
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TowardsHome
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:46 pm
R2I and living in joint families
I always think that joint families make things difficult. In my mind there are two seperate situations 1. Living with a true extended joint family ( parents or in laws and uncles, aunts etc) 2. Living with parents or in-laws
1. Sociologically , extended joint families seem to be headed towards extinction. I always thought that their existence was driven by economic reasons. It made more sense that brothers who shared duties in tilling the same land ,raising the same livestock or do the same family business , live under a roof and share resources. And resources were meager pre independence and early post independence India. Marriages happened between extended families, the new members were always some one of some one of some one ,tolerance levels were higher. I do not think that situation was perfect either ( assumptions made from countless SV Ranga Rao movies where the entry of the urban bred,scheming youngest daughter in law wrecks the ideal joint family). But in this present day , I doubt there is relevance to this extended joint family system . Friction develops between moving bodies and amount generated is directlly proportional to square of planes of motion.
2. Living with parents/in laws. This happens more frequently for multiple reasons including medical reasons, desire to live with parents . There are pros and cons to this as Samairati has pointed out. Cons are easy to pick out and they dominate the picture most of the time. I do not know if familiarity breeds contempt, but it definitely leads to a feeling of being taken for granted.Exceptional people (either exceptional inlaws or exceptional spouses) are needed to make this a pleasant experience . In my experience I have seen only few families who do this very well. Every other situation is a result of necessity , and not a pleasant experience for one party or most times both. The assumption that the bon homie during the six month visits of in-laws/parents will be the same when we go back probably should be made with caution. Being connected as a family brings in lot of affection betweeen in laws and the spouses of their children, but the daily grind wears this out and the dark side of people start showing up which leaves a bitter after taste in mouth . Personally, even though one of my motivating factors is to live close to parents, I do not think I will live with them (though thats a huge financial incentive as they live in a large house and I do not need to save money to buy a home ). This is a high stakes situation where even a tiny amount of unpleasantness between the two components of my family is unacceptable and the risk cannot be taken
After having said that, I can only imagine the joy when this situation works out well . That is a perfect scenario but in my opinion is less than the 2 SD situation in a bell curve
1. Sociologically , extended joint families seem to be headed towards extinction. I always thought that their existence was driven by economic reasons. It made more sense that brothers who shared duties in tilling the same land ,raising the same livestock or do the same family business , live under a roof and share resources. And resources were meager pre independence and early post independence India. Marriages happened between extended families, the new members were always some one of some one of some one ,tolerance levels were higher. I do not think that situation was perfect either ( assumptions made from countless SV Ranga Rao movies where the entry of the urban bred,scheming youngest daughter in law wrecks the ideal joint family). But in this present day , I doubt there is relevance to this extended joint family system . Friction develops between moving bodies and amount generated is directlly proportional to square of planes of motion.
2. Living with parents/in laws. This happens more frequently for multiple reasons including medical reasons, desire to live with parents . There are pros and cons to this as Samairati has pointed out. Cons are easy to pick out and they dominate the picture most of the time. I do not know if familiarity breeds contempt, but it definitely leads to a feeling of being taken for granted.Exceptional people (either exceptional inlaws or exceptional spouses) are needed to make this a pleasant experience . In my experience I have seen only few families who do this very well. Every other situation is a result of necessity , and not a pleasant experience for one party or most times both. The assumption that the bon homie during the six month visits of in-laws/parents will be the same when we go back probably should be made with caution. Being connected as a family brings in lot of affection betweeen in laws and the spouses of their children, but the daily grind wears this out and the dark side of people start showing up which leaves a bitter after taste in mouth . Personally, even though one of my motivating factors is to live close to parents, I do not think I will live with them (though thats a huge financial incentive as they live in a large house and I do not need to save money to buy a home ). This is a high stakes situation where even a tiny amount of unpleasantness between the two components of my family is unacceptable and the risk cannot be taken
After having said that, I can only imagine the joy when this situation works out well . That is a perfect scenario but in my opinion is less than the 2 SD situation in a bell curve
R2I and living in joint families
This happens to some extent in my family. There are many pros and cons with this arrangment.
pros.
1. The biggest pro, is being with parents. There is nothing more fulfilling in a persons life. specially the speed with which things work at the time of sickness of a parent is very gratyfying.
2. grandparents are a great influence on the children. Without bragging I can safely say my kids have been transformed in this respect. They learn a lot of good things from grandparents that we have forgotten. My older kid, wakes up at 6 am, sits with the granpa reads 2 pages of "Hindu" paper. Also things like spirit of sharing comes very easily.
COns:
1. Our older child was 8 years when she came back. So she still finds the whole family discussing her academics very bothersome. so we told most of our family members to hold off discussing these issues. seems to work.
2. The spouse: things can get hard on the spouse. we have 3 maids but as per murphys law 2 of them fail to show up, on such days, its a lot of hard work. I have given the offer that we could move to a flat nearby, but she says being the oldest bahu, she doesnt want to leave the old inlaws.
3. financials can get hard...I dont want anyone to spend for my family. They dont let me. So I need to clear these issues up.
I have closely followed some marwari families that are together. I have asked how they do these things. The most common splits occur in relation to the financial aspects. They advice me that discussing these issues beforehand is the best way moving forward.
RK
pros.
1. The biggest pro, is being with parents. There is nothing more fulfilling in a persons life. specially the speed with which things work at the time of sickness of a parent is very gratyfying.
2. grandparents are a great influence on the children. Without bragging I can safely say my kids have been transformed in this respect. They learn a lot of good things from grandparents that we have forgotten. My older kid, wakes up at 6 am, sits with the granpa reads 2 pages of "Hindu" paper. Also things like spirit of sharing comes very easily.
COns:
1. Our older child was 8 years when she came back. So she still finds the whole family discussing her academics very bothersome. so we told most of our family members to hold off discussing these issues. seems to work.
2. The spouse: things can get hard on the spouse. we have 3 maids but as per murphys law 2 of them fail to show up, on such days, its a lot of hard work. I have given the offer that we could move to a flat nearby, but she says being the oldest bahu, she doesnt want to leave the old inlaws.
3. financials can get hard...I dont want anyone to spend for my family. They dont let me. So I need to clear these issues up.
I have closely followed some marwari families that are together. I have asked how they do these things. The most common splits occur in relation to the financial aspects. They advice me that discussing these issues beforehand is the best way moving forward.
RK
R2I and living in joint families
Homebound;422313I always think that joint families make things difficult. In my mind there are two seperate situations 1. Living with a true extended joint family ( parents or in laws and uncles, aunts etc) 2. Living with parents or in-laws
Gem of a post HB - candid, balanced.
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TowardsHome
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:46 pm
R2I and living in joint families
[QUOTE]grandparents are a great influence on the children. Without bragging I can safely say my kids have been transformed in this respect. They learn a lot of good things from grandparents that we have forgotten. My older kid, wakes up at 6 am, sits with the granpa reads 2 pages of "Hindu" paper. Also things like spirit of sharing comes very easily
Very heart warming lines. Never forgot the days , grandfather used to take us out for morning walks ,got all his grand children together in the evenings and told us countless tales of Mahabharata. I also remember my mom ( who herself was the head of a department in a post graduate college ) always run decisions small from big with my grand father even when she was 35 ).We feel the same way with our parents when they come to visit us . They take complete control of our 4 year old, she does not want spend to time with us any more when they are around. We still find ourselves discussing the nuances of careers with my parents despite complete awareness that their knowledge of my field is minimal. The wisdom imparted by grey hairs and hard knocks always has been the shining beacon
. The disillusionment seen by strife in joint families around me makes me wonder if we will end up in the same situation once I go back , but exceptions like you always make us willing to try
The Hindu and its role in development of a south Indian child - thats for a hijack post
Very heart warming lines. Never forgot the days , grandfather used to take us out for morning walks ,got all his grand children together in the evenings and told us countless tales of Mahabharata. I also remember my mom ( who herself was the head of a department in a post graduate college ) always run decisions small from big with my grand father even when she was 35 ).We feel the same way with our parents when they come to visit us . They take complete control of our 4 year old, she does not want spend to time with us any more when they are around. We still find ourselves discussing the nuances of careers with my parents despite complete awareness that their knowledge of my field is minimal. The wisdom imparted by grey hairs and hard knocks always has been the shining beacon
. The disillusionment seen by strife in joint families around me makes me wonder if we will end up in the same situation once I go back , but exceptions like you always make us willing to try
The Hindu and its role in development of a south Indian child - thats for a hijack post
R2I and living in joint families
I agree as a whole It is hard to make things happen for a joint family. I do find some strains at times. All me and my wife tell ourselves is that even with a little occasional strain our lives are so much better than the crap life nuclear family we had in US.
RK
RK
R2I and living in joint families
Homebound;422326We still find ourselves discussing the nuances of careers with my parents despite complete awareness that their knowledge of my field is minimal.
This is what I mentioned-you have grown up this way and feel at home doing this with your parents. I wonder how your spouse feels about this. If she also truly feels the same way as you, kudos to your family. However, in most cases, the problem starts when the husband and wife are not on the same page with regard to parents.
In the previous generations, there was a kind of unspoken rule that women were expected to "adjust" and "assimilate" with the husband's extended family. Which is why, in my opinion, most JFs clicked. I have met many elderly women (now in their 50's and 60's) who have lived in a JF and admit openly that they were not happy. Of course, there are some who feel that they and their kids gained a lot by staying in a JF.
However, in the context of this particular post, I think it is rare for all the members-the couple and their kids-to be content in a JF. One interesting thing I have noted nowadays is, it seems to have become less of a taboo to live with the wife's parents. The son-in-law is treated like a king:)), the wife is happy and the kids get to live with their grandparents. I know a couple who R2I'ed from the UK and have been living with her parents for 2 years. Seems to be going fine for them.
In any kind of arrangement, somebody has to make a "sacrifice"-same applies when you R2I into a JF.
R2I and living in joint families
If JF means the usual definition in current India - man, his wife and children, and his parents living in the same house, then:
The success of such a living arrangement is in the hands of the woman. She can make a house/home or break it. The smallest speaking ups from her can disturb the peace and the smallest "adjustments" from her contribute a lot to the continuing peace.
It also depends on the hierarchy, so to say. That is, who is living with whom. Are the young couple and family living with his parents, OR, are his parents living with the man and his (nuclear) family. That decides when push comes to shove, whose preference, words or wishes will get priority.
Closely related to this is how the poor man caught in the middle deals with conflicts. He often has three options - A. Tell his mom that wife is numero uno in the house and his life. B. Tell his wife that his mother is old and wise, and her wishes/wisdom get preference/priority. C. Tell neither of them any such thing, and each time a small or big conflict happens, play peacemaker-on-demand.
A woman who thinks she is an equal partner in the marriage, and sometimes chafes at the JF arrangement would thus view and react to man choosing A/B/C: A- everyday is Christmas for the man, happy wife means happy man. B - Initially wife is unhappy, slowly reconciles to it, even sees it as a positive sign of husband's nature, once in a while cribs about it to him and friends, man can counter her unhappiness with the empathetic-bedroom-ear (discussed elsewhere in forum), and they amble along. C - everybody (man, wife, his mom) is unhappy, esp. wife does not like the daily khich-khich and uncertainty of whose side man will take this time.
The long term success of JF arrangement can often be seen/predicted in how the woman reacts to early interactions with in-laws. For example, this video, which is a prop I often employ in threads on this topic : )
[YOUTUBE]C44vihlOixk[/YOUTUBE]
If the young woman in the video does not mind Maa-ji being privy to their tender nok-jhok (loving tiffs/talks), and the man gets his dessert after Maa-ji has retired for the night, it is a good sign for the long term. If she is the kind who gets bothered by it, then, sigh... it is a very bad sign... life long, the woman will be bothered by Maa-ji being privy to the goings-on of their lives, even long after early marriage nok-jhoks are replaced by more serious talks and life's to-do's, and the bothered woman will make sure the man continues to receive his just desserts : )
Then, there is the category of women who could not even watch this ad on TV with Maa-ji or Papa-ji around.
The success of such a living arrangement is in the hands of the woman. She can make a house/home or break it. The smallest speaking ups from her can disturb the peace and the smallest "adjustments" from her contribute a lot to the continuing peace.
It also depends on the hierarchy, so to say. That is, who is living with whom. Are the young couple and family living with his parents, OR, are his parents living with the man and his (nuclear) family. That decides when push comes to shove, whose preference, words or wishes will get priority.
Closely related to this is how the poor man caught in the middle deals with conflicts. He often has three options - A. Tell his mom that wife is numero uno in the house and his life. B. Tell his wife that his mother is old and wise, and her wishes/wisdom get preference/priority. C. Tell neither of them any such thing, and each time a small or big conflict happens, play peacemaker-on-demand.
A woman who thinks she is an equal partner in the marriage, and sometimes chafes at the JF arrangement would thus view and react to man choosing A/B/C: A- everyday is Christmas for the man, happy wife means happy man. B - Initially wife is unhappy, slowly reconciles to it, even sees it as a positive sign of husband's nature, once in a while cribs about it to him and friends, man can counter her unhappiness with the empathetic-bedroom-ear (discussed elsewhere in forum), and they amble along. C - everybody (man, wife, his mom) is unhappy, esp. wife does not like the daily khich-khich and uncertainty of whose side man will take this time.
The long term success of JF arrangement can often be seen/predicted in how the woman reacts to early interactions with in-laws. For example, this video, which is a prop I often employ in threads on this topic : )
[YOUTUBE]C44vihlOixk[/YOUTUBE]
If the young woman in the video does not mind Maa-ji being privy to their tender nok-jhok (loving tiffs/talks), and the man gets his dessert after Maa-ji has retired for the night, it is a good sign for the long term. If she is the kind who gets bothered by it, then, sigh... it is a very bad sign... life long, the woman will be bothered by Maa-ji being privy to the goings-on of their lives, even long after early marriage nok-jhoks are replaced by more serious talks and life's to-do's, and the bothered woman will make sure the man continues to receive his just desserts : )
Then, there is the category of women who could not even watch this ad on TV with Maa-ji or Papa-ji around.
R2I and living in joint families
Rajram;422303Families are so siloed these days, even accommodating one's parents or in laws into post R2I lives sometimes becomes a serious question mark. On the other extreme, there are joint family situations and some are willing to lose their islolation and embrace joint families with sisters, brothers and their familes etc. Are you either contemplating or have R2Ied to live in a joint family ? What do you gain? What do you lose? Do joint families make adjustments easier or harder after R2I?
A Different take.....
It basically depends upon dynamics of your family esp amongst the two generations of the same sex, not restricted to females alone.
The pros and cons are all mentioned here and in fact it need not be as none of them are new to you and any one and every one knows the family situation at the back of their heart, even if they dont want to bring it up or even acknowledge it.
Second is that of the privacy and space and a 3 B/R apt may not cut it, a better solution imho would be two adjacent apts or in the same community would also give some separation to the generations who also desire their own life, but have to compromise when staying together.
During a rework of our apartment, my parents went to live temporarily in a senior citizens home to escape the dust. My mother had wanted to live there for quite some time when few of her friends moved there and liked it, but my father never warmed up to that idea then, preferring to live in our apt only.
When the work got extended beyond diwali like all house modifications gets extended, my parents came back just for Diwali and to my surprise my parents were happy to go back and in fact went back a day earlier even before the actual work started.
My mom explained that a certain turning point comes when the old people look for calm and peace surroundings with lots of greenery and like minded old people to make friends.
Dont get me wrong, my parents adore the kids like crazy and love us dearly and vice versa and my mom treats my wife like a real daughter and the feeling is reciprocated. One of the reasons of R2I was the kids and grandparents interaction and getting to know each other and as RK said you have to see it believe it the way the kids listen to grandparents more than us.
Second point according to them was the food with less salt and more "sathvik", and even though our cook uses less salt, they perhaps felt guilty that our taste was impacted and she alluded to that. My dad was also praising the food there and probably missed it more.
Actually when I visited there first time to drop, I had expected it to be drab and a dull place, but instead it was nice, quite posh with lots of greenery and cheerful people. So for now, instead of going for second adjacent apt, we booked a new unit there which will be useful for me also. Surprised to find its got a waiting list for a resale or lease.