Tsozum;463176For some of the responses I wrote, I got few private messages asking for my reason to move back to the US. So I thought I will spend few minutes and post it here and make it public. There were two main stream of issues that I want to highlight as reasons for my return.ProfessionalI moved to India in May of 2010 through the firm that I was working for in the US. The opportunity was great as I was tasked with building a team ground up. I put my leadership in place and grew the team to over 75 people. I had a great management support as they had also returned from the US. Few of my peers who led other groups had also moved back from the US. So it was great management team and we all got along just fine. There was zero politics marked by an extremely collaborative work style. However, the partnership with the US management/teams were pretty rocky. Since this was a captive the team engaged directly with the teams in the US. The US management never saw the India as equals and were always griping about lack of experience depth. Pushing back demands that India bring developers with 20+ years of experience resulted in dysfunctional conflicts. This resulted in India team being an order taker with absolutely no ownership. Every thing was driven from the US and the India leads role was more or less administrative in nature with only people management. Second issue that bothered me was work-life balance. I never was able to return home before 10:00 PM because I had to overlap with CST. This meant eating really late night dinner and go to bed pretty late. However I had to wake up by 6:30 because I had to take my children to schools. I felt this put lot of pressure on the health with late night dinners and perennial lack of sleep. PersonalThe place I worked was in Mumbai. What this meant was I couldn't afford a decent property within reasonable distance of my work place. Small apartment put in place by clearing slums (where some still remained) costed multi-crores. The place I ended up renting was, by Indian middle class standards, unimaginable with Rs. 55,000 per month rent. The only reason i rented the place was lack of red pan stains and crumbling structure. However I had to live among people who were rich on the outside but were all garbage inside. They wore fancy clothes but the means by which they acquired their living standards were questionable. I had movie industry people as neighbor and, oh boy, I could write another post describing personality and type of people who visited them... unsavory.While one will argue that Mumbai has the best infrastructure and living standards in India (relative) I found it woefully inadequate for a city that wants to be regarded as one of the global cities. That said, I did move to India with right expectations and honestly the pollution (dust, smog etc) didn't bother as much (my kids has troubles however). I could manage the heat, commutes in rickshaws (i figured out how to sit and not hurt my back), pushing other people about hard to get my veggies weighed at grocery stores etc. The thing that bothered me the most is general attitude of people. I felt there is generally a downfall in the value system in India. I soon realized the India I left behind many years back is not the same anymore (rightfully so) but things that shouldnt be changing was being cast aside. Issues like eithics, integrity, basic cleanliness & hygine, courtesy doesnt exist (when I mean courtesy I don't mean opening the door for others and leave it open for the next guy --- courtesy here is letting a wailing ambulance pass rather that use the ambulance siren for one's own advantage slowing it down).There is absolute downward trend when it comes to ethics & integrity. The government is full of people who leech off others and this behavior has now trickled down to private sector as well. Every one wants to move up the ladder and is looking for short cut. With regards to hard work and commitment to work is concerned -- well i find it among only few in the general populace (including my staff). We all complained that 30% taxes that we paid returned absolutely nothing -- no public schools, no public health, no safety --- police are chors, no legal recourse (the only good dead was the army keep Pakis at bay... which is good)Living with this conflicts turned out to be much harder, and I had to do only one thing to resolve. Move back the US and lead a routine boring lifestyle that I sought to escape. Now I rather live this lifestyle for now and figure out what to next after 3 years or so.Those who are interested in moving back and really want to understand some of the details, feel free to pm me and I am more than happy to discuss/share my two cents worth over the phone.Thanks
mkngtrbl;464921I R2Ied with my kids around 4 and 1. I had my GC for a year and half when I moved back. I left with a 2 year re-entry permit that has now expired and I have taken a business visa for travel. I have absolutely no regrets about moving when I did. As far as schooling is concerned, if you enroll your kids in the right school they should be able to adjust fine. Kids have a much better emotional coping capacity as compared to adults.
For me, the best part or R2I was having my kids around my parents at an age where they could all enjoy together. As kids are getting older, they spend less time with the grandparents and more with their friends. I am glad I was able to give those few years together to my family. I don't think their bond would be as strong if we had waited for a few years more.
For your collection, my R2I have worked. I could be the oldest (close to 13 yrs) (in terms of R2I year, not age. That honor dbs will take). Probability of continued stay is high for me, but I think eventually my kids will R2A (just a guess)
srinpo;465177For your collection, my R2I have worked. I could be the oldest (close to 13 yrs) (in terms of R2I year, not age. That honor dbs will take). Probability of continued stay is high for me, but I think eventually my kids will R2A (just a guess)
Thanks srinpo. Please feel free to post why it worked etc. This thread is mainly for folks like you who R2Ied to explain why R2I worked or did not work and give any advice to potential R2Iers.
gatanesakharam;362032Hmm. I am member of this forum for quite some time. I never thought I will land up in same dilemma ever. Till now I was pretty clear in mind that I will go back after 5 years but as I am now putting thoughts on how to start planning of packing, shipping and settling down in India, I am questing my own decision. Should I go back in just 4 years?
Background ----------
Came to US on H1B in late 2006. Have 10+ years of experience so far. Both of us working in high tech industry. earning nice salary and doing saving as much as possible but living comfortably at the same time. Blessed with 2 kids (first 3 yr and another 3 month old) Bought a single family home back in India and have 2 flats in India. moderate saving (~ 150k) in stocks, 401k, cash in hand etc. Both of us can get good job back in India. Already got couple of offers.
My kids school in India will start in June 2011 so I have to move back before that if I decide to move back.
Reason I came to this country, I came purely for money. Saved lot, pay off my loan of existing flats also bought SFH worth 1.5cr. Have moderate financial stability.
Things I have not done here but wish to do, - GC (Insurance to come back? Although citizenship is distant dream, is GC really intermediate solution?) - MBA (may be in entrepreneurship) - Visit more places - very few national parks, canada, mexico, hawaii etc - Network more in bay area in startup world to start my company in future
Reason to go back, - Mother (70 age) staying alone and suffering from minor illness. wanted to stay close to her grandchildren. Currently she is staying with my sister who stays near by. - Kids schooling - Typical daycare issues in US, kids getting sick, now with two it will be double up. Also not much saving if both of us are working and both kids going to daycare. - Getting opportunity to start India operation for a company so I think it will be career growth for me. Currently I am Individual contributor/architect.
Dilemma ------ - Is it too early to return? Just 4 years. With 2 kids coming back here will be next to impossible - Since no GC, no way to come back? (Can I do another H1B in one year? Is it true? How easy it is?) - Guilt that I am doing injustice to my spouse. My wife says she is going to suffer in all of this. She has nice friend circle here, obviously away from MIL so comfortable here, has good job here so financially independent. She was the one who pushed and got me here as it was her dream to come to US. I partially agree with her that she is the one who need to make most of the adjustments. Even if we go back she can work but even if we get good domestic help, she has to do logistics and make sure everything is fine. Also kids do get sick in India too. (may be more than what they do here?!?) - Raising Kids (More I think which country is better, more I get confused. Please help. May be till they are 6 here in US and later in India?) - Career Growth opportunities (in US I know they are minimal but in terms of pure cash, its much better here with 9-5 job earning 120k+ Vs 20-22L in India with lots of headache, putting 10 hours etc.) - After going through complete process of buying a bunglow and maintaining it for a year now and at the same time looking at my friends who are owning single family home here, I feel we can enjoy facilities available in single family home here better than what we get in India.
Guys, please help me. My brain is making decision to move back and started taking action accordingly but heart still think to spend time here for another 2-3 years till my elder son turns 6, I do my MBA and spend some more time here to visit places.
Thanks
On 17th of June 2012:
gatanesakharam;467916Last day in India. Good Bye India!!
poofygoogle;467947Visited Madurai over the weekend. Great darshan, had fun shopping around and most surprisingly for some reason autowallahs were so sweet to us, never overcharged us, took us around to right shops, right places for lunch and doubled up as a guide. Had a peaceful darshan and felt so good. Its one of those 'feel good' moments in India for me.
Lately I am seeing so many negatives being written about India and just my 2c. I think the expectation is you expected / expect India to change whereas its us that have changed after being away for so many years. Most of the problems have always been there. I am not saying don't bash , but also think about the reasons that you came here for and connect with your inner happiness. If you are not happy, you can always take the next step to go back.
Also request you to do the right research before doing something that will affect your kids like school etc. After being away for so many years, we have changed our perspective on life, the way our kids should be etc. So naturally you cannot admit your kids in a school that is with the general streamline. Visit the school, decide for yourself if it will work out, check out facilities, open house etc. That is what I did when I came back.
An example is Chettinad Vidhyashram. When I first landed here, my kid got admission there as well as in Vaels and in Harishree. I visited all 3 schools before finalising on Harishree. Reason is that I felt my kids will be happier here. But I know many of my friends chose Chettinad and are happy with it as well. The crowd per class is high, lots of sections but I see those kids and have interacted with few and believe me the kids are a lot smarter and tougher and happier as well than many US kids I know. Each kid is different, so as parents you make the choice whats best for the kid as you know what will suit them. No point is joining them in something without even visiting the school and then feel sad and start cribbing.
If you came back for reasons like taking care of poor people , volunteer work etc, inequality, you must have known that govt issues were always there in India. so whats up with the frustrations? If you genuinely are into it, remember the quote ""Be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi". Thats my take..
GoodForAll;467954Is there a strong reason to go like your parents need your immediate care now and it can't wait etc. If not please don;t R2I.
I recently R2Ied (three months back) and took a job in India (both me and DH). I am being completely honest here, there are days I feel good about R2I and 90% of the time I feel unhappy since in India money needs to flow like water to have basic facilities met.
20 lakh is only enough if you have already a paid off house and you are ready to go in public transportation everywhere and definitely not live like a US return :-(. My monthy expenses range from 50 to 60000 s per month for a family of four (excluding rent and we only eat out once a month).
You can live happily in India if you do not read newspaper every day and definitely skip all the negative news.Do not trust anyone, in broad daylight people will take money from you be it for telephone connection,broadband or cable.
I regret my R2I sometimes depending on which side of the bed I got up like someone else said in this forum. I enjoy my kids living with their grand parents and having more friends here etc. But still day to day life is very hard here.
Since both of you don;t have kids yet and have two jobs ,save enough ,have USC for kids and then return later if you're still interested.
India is really good for upper class people or for people who are ready to live like a local(travel in bus, can eat from road side dabba's and not have all those NRI qualities,I didn;t meant International schools here )
Seeing India from US and actually living here is very different. To get any basic stuff done is a big hassle and by the end of the day you are so tired to enjoy time with your family.
I do have USC and can return back if needed. I would like to give my self atleast one year to see if I get adjusted to this chaos. Otherwise I will R2A and take my parents there.
Whatever experience this R2I gives in the mean time I will consider it as a valuable experience for my kids and family.
For people who will ask, didn't you know all this before moving back my answer is this. Life in India when parents are taking care of you and every other problems is very different from the case where I am supposed to take care of my family and every responsibility that comes with it.
jay_jay;468047Just curious, what was the motivation behind the move, ignore it if its not something you want to write.
I tried moving about 7 years back just to be with all the relatives and raise kid in Indian atmosphere, I failed. My kid was just 5 years old by then, having attended 2 years of part time schooling in US. Everyday, it was a battle to get her ready to go to school, she cried, apologized if she has done something wrong and being punished my making her go to the school here, she will abscond in the house even after putting the uniform, I need to hunt her under the bed, washroom, open terrace, backyard etc., she never uses the bathroom there ( we were not living in a mansion in US, very average apartment but obviously clean washrooms), that school was considered one of the modern school of my city Trichy, I losely remember my wife cried as she couldn't put up with the drudgery the kid was going and her own nagging / nosy environment, mean relatives who used to warn us that your upbringing is questionable sort, too much independence for your kids etc..,(all my kid demanded was a clean washroom at school and co-operative / encouraging environment against slapping left and right, harassing kids by not letting them to have any frigging free time in 4 hours straight), horrible maids who pretty want everything what you have, the driver drops my wife at the tax office and she says she will return for two hours, he will run the engine and turn on the A/C while other drivers safely occupy the tree shelter around, I was little uncomfortable dictating this. Pretty much he will take a commission on every service directly from the service station, and on and on.
We decided to move back to US but our Canadian PR was going outdated, thought we would try, finish the citizenship formalities (3 years) and move back to US, From day one, my kid was so excited to go to the school here, she never looked back. Its been 7 years in Canada now, the schooling environment, support my kids get, the general amenities she enjoys (local parks in every 1 km with clean toilets, very affordable community center facilities with classes such as swimming, tennis, track and field, skating, more importantly personality development classes), at most $0 in school fees, books where as the standard is quite stunning including the individual attention and many more, that how we got stuck and found the country has lots of focus on kids early childhood.. Last 1+ years, the R2i thoughts keep hitting the mind as we're missing the our parents (on either side, they visit every alternative year), relatives when I see the life my kid enjoys, I just wipe out the thoughts, again it comes up but goes off.......
I am in search of what is known as a balance between both, that is why I thought of Singapore and Dubai.. so that no body miss what each want (there will be a compromise but that is OK, wouldn't be a very shaky ground).. but too often even that decision seem to put pressure on the kids and hence the dilemma cycle goes on..
maheshtvm;468114Guys, My sincere advice to those who are planning to R2I: IF you don't have a compelling reason to go back (family commitments etc) DON'T GO. I lived in the U.S. for about 13 years and went back in Dec 2009. I moved through same employer, which means that I had a good role and job waiting for me in Chennai. After being there for about 2.5 years, I came back - R2A.
People talk about "India being developed", "India has changed" etc etc. I am not sure what development means. When I left India back in 1996, there were severe problems with Power, Water, Infrastructure, Corruption etc. 14 years later ALL THOSE PROBLEMS exist!! In fact, they have multiplied exponentially !!
People carrying around with the latest iPhone or Samsung Galaxy III is NOT development. Hundreds of western fast food chains (McDonald's, Pizza hut etc) sprouting up every week in Metro cities is NOT development and people buying the expensive cars is not development.
All the basic problems still exist ( I think for the past 40 years !). You may live in a nice community with swimming pools and things. but the moment you step out, you will have to face Indian reality - ruthless traffic, extreme pollution, unsafe food/water, rampant corruption, and the list goes on..
I used to think that once i go back, I will have a chauffeur to drive me around, my wife will have a maid and a cook at her service etc etc. Believe me folks, dealing with these folks is a challenge, irrespective of how well you pay them. Having lived in the U.S with little or no dependency on other people, dealing with these folks were getting on our nerves !
Trains (at least in South India) are horrible.. (By the way, the toilets are still the same as Brits had designed them during the steam engine times!!) . I once took night train from Chennai to Kerala. The bogie was infested with cockroaches.. they would come above you,below you and ON you and you cant do anything about it. They hand over a blanket in the A/C coach. My son got bitten so badly by bed bugs that I had to take him to the doctor the next day! First time, when the examiner came to check, I complained to him about roaches, bugs etc...He asked for my ticket and while checking it... all he asked me was "Sir, Veliyoora "' means, "Are you from out of the country" :o and he quietly walked way.. I didnt quite understand why he asked me that.. Later, I realized why he asked me that question... After this incident, we had to travel couple of times in the night train and we were always welcomed by roaches and bugs in the coach. But I never complained to anyone. bcos you know that nothing is going to happen.
The guy who delivers our newspaper has lot of other side business. I once asked him where the RTO (DMV) was .. bcos I would like to take a driver's license in India. The guy asked me few questions (like do you have Ration card, pan card, local address proof etc etc, most of which I did not have). After all that he said, "I will deliver your driver's license to your home, you just pay me 8K INR". you just need to come to RTO once to sign in front of some officer... not driving test, no learners license, nothing.. This is just an example. Most of the govt services from birth to death certificate function this way..
guys, I have plenty of such stories. but I don't want to bore this group. so my advise to those of you who are still contemplating about R2I, unless you have a strong reason to go back, pls DONT GO. It is not worth it. India hasnt changed a bit in the last 40 years !!!
girishrbhat;472680i can understand the pain of R2I, I myself did that in april 2012 and we couldnt handle this system so we have decided R2A in october. I feel my kids are going backwards, There are no ethics or values of life here, I feel my kids knew more indian culture and moral of life when they were in USA. Cash is king here which pisses me off. I know problems with US but my day 2 day life dont get affected but i feel i am dying here every day. No professionalism whats so ever and people lie so easily. I have decided not to slog my entire life in this hope-less place. I am sorry if i sound anti-indian but the love to this country has made my life miserable.
