Hello,
I R2Ied to Pune last month. I am a USC with PIO. I am an IT professional with 12.5 years exp, all in the USA.
After searching for a job for the past month I have 2 companies interested:
One is a large US Consulting firm with their Delivery Centers in India. They are offering a position in middle management (not senior mgmt). That is there evaluation based on number of people I have managed in the past, etc.
The other is somewhat a startup with less than 100 employees. They are offering a Group Head position (fairly high in the mgmt chain).
Salaries have not been discussed yet.
The large MNC can look good on the resume for further job search, but currently is giving a lower than expected title. The small company will give a higher title but is unknown and the co performance can go up or down.
I was wondering if any of you can share your thoughts on what approach will be better. Personally I like small co. culture, but a large co comes with a brand name. Also, what salary should the small co offer ? Any help will be really appreciated.
Thank you.
Which offer to accept
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obiwankanobi
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:38 pm
Which offer to accept
Need more input.
Breaking down your info all it says is
Company A is a big company (subjective definiton without a name)
Company B is a startup (subjective definiton without a name)
Other things mentioned are usual stuff about established v/s startup.
People who like big companies will say go for big company and who like startups will say go for startup.
OB1.
Breaking down your info all it says is
Company A is a big company (subjective definiton without a name)
Company B is a startup (subjective definiton without a name)
Other things mentioned are usual stuff about established v/s startup.
People who like big companies will say go for big company and who like startups will say go for startup.
OB1.
Which offer to accept
Company A is one of the big 5 (or 4) US consulting firms (e.g. Deloitte).
Company B is small (< 100 employees) with a few customers in the US.
The other main difference is in the title they are offering. Co A is giving a position of 'Associate Manager', vs. Co B is offering 'Delivery Head' (with more responsibilities of course).
Co A is saying this position can be promoted to Manager soon, but no guarantee. In B, the position will be to head an entire group.
Company B is small (< 100 employees) with a few customers in the US.
The other main difference is in the title they are offering. Co A is giving a position of 'Associate Manager', vs. Co B is offering 'Delivery Head' (with more responsibilities of course).
Co A is saying this position can be promoted to Manager soon, but no guarantee. In B, the position will be to head an entire group.
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r2ichennai2007
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:46 pm
Which offer to accept
The question is very simple.
1. Do you like hierarchies
2. Do you like to be in a stable company
3. Do you have enough management experience to be a delivery head?
4. Do you want to be with a startup?
5. In startup, you can have any title. You can be even a CEO in that company
6. Question is what is that you really want to do. Without $$ figures, you cannot really tell the difference
7. Based on the last response, you are not getting a manager position. You are getting a lead position. Correct me if I am wrong.
One final thing. If you are really interested in senior management position, go for the title. Don't worry about the other stuff. You can continue to grow in that path.
Note:
This is my 2 cents. This is not an official guidance. These are my opinions.
1. Do you like hierarchies
2. Do you like to be in a stable company
3. Do you have enough management experience to be a delivery head?
4. Do you want to be with a startup?
5. In startup, you can have any title. You can be even a CEO in that company
6. Question is what is that you really want to do. Without $$ figures, you cannot really tell the difference
7. Based on the last response, you are not getting a manager position. You are getting a lead position. Correct me if I am wrong.
One final thing. If you are really interested in senior management position, go for the title. Don't worry about the other stuff. You can continue to grow in that path.
Note:
This is my 2 cents. This is not an official guidance. These are my opinions.
Which offer to accept
Dear r2ichennai2007,
Thanks for your response. To answer your points:
1. Do you like hierarchies - NO
2. Do you like to be in a stable company - YES
3. Do you have enough management experience to be a delivery head? - NOT ENOUGH, BUT I HAVE THE POTENTIAL. THE TEAM WILL BE SMALL TO START WITH AND THEN GROW.
4. Do you want to be with a startup? - I LIKE SMALL CO CULTURE.
5. In startup, you can have any title. You can be even a CEO in that company - AGREED.
6. Question is what is that you really want to do. Without $$ figures, you cannot really tell the difference - I DONT KNOW SALARY OFFERED BY EITHER CO YET. WHICH WAS MY OTHER QUESTION - WHAT SALARY TO EXPECT REALLY.
7. Based on the last response, you are not getting a manager position. You are getting a lead position. Correct me if I am wrong. - YES, THE LARGE CO IS OFFERING ASSOC MGR POSITION, which will report to MANAGER followed by SR. MGR and so on. RISING IN THIS CO MAY TAKE A LONG TIME.
Thanks for your response. To answer your points:
1. Do you like hierarchies - NO
2. Do you like to be in a stable company - YES
3. Do you have enough management experience to be a delivery head? - NOT ENOUGH, BUT I HAVE THE POTENTIAL. THE TEAM WILL BE SMALL TO START WITH AND THEN GROW.
4. Do you want to be with a startup? - I LIKE SMALL CO CULTURE.
5. In startup, you can have any title. You can be even a CEO in that company - AGREED.
6. Question is what is that you really want to do. Without $$ figures, you cannot really tell the difference - I DONT KNOW SALARY OFFERED BY EITHER CO YET. WHICH WAS MY OTHER QUESTION - WHAT SALARY TO EXPECT REALLY.
7. Based on the last response, you are not getting a manager position. You are getting a lead position. Correct me if I am wrong. - YES, THE LARGE CO IS OFFERING ASSOC MGR POSITION, which will report to MANAGER followed by SR. MGR and so on. RISING IN THIS CO MAY TAKE A LONG TIME.
Which offer to accept
My personal preference would be to go with a brand name company rather than a startup (small) company. Let me explain why with what I have seen here in Bangalore. Most of the small/startup companies do not have enough cash reserves. Some of them are like fly by night operations. I have also seen some of the companies unable to pay the monthly salary, maybe this is an extreme but it has happened. Recruiting good talented people in a small company is difficult since they don't want to pay higher salaries. Be prepared to work long hours since you are expected to play many roles even though your title may be a VP. Getting a work and personal life balance is almost impossible. I don't think you need all this stress specially when you have just come back.
The advantage of working in a bigger organization is the name brand counts for future job hops. Since you have just R2I'ed recently you will find it easier to transition to the Indian work culture and pace if you work for a large MNC. One thing is some amount of politics that you may have to put up with.
The advantage of working in a bigger organization is the name brand counts for future job hops. Since you have just R2I'ed recently you will find it easier to transition to the Indian work culture and pace if you work for a large MNC. One thing is some amount of politics that you may have to put up with.
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obiwankanobi
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:38 pm
Which offer to accept
my previous reply got lost, so 2nd try.
You seem to be unable to decide between a small co and a big co.
I disagree with Gator's post as there are different kinds of small companies. In your case you mentioned less than 100 unless you mean something like 15 - 20, not getting paid or getting paid less shouldn't be a concern. Sometimes small companies may pay much higher than a big co
a) even for the same position
b) more often the big company needs much higher qualification for higher posts so same person may get lower post.
I agree that small cos pay less for lower positions but when it comes to country head it would almost certainly beat what an associate mgr can get in a big co (assuming the big co is US based). I wouldn't join a big Indian based co like INFY/WIPRO etc.
Since you are undecided in small v/s big I would suggest to let money be the factor since job satisfaction will generally tend to be more for "country head" v/s "associate mgr" and that you do portray a desire for higher posts by thinking you have the potential.
In my job hunt process my US employer was giving me a promotion with much less salary v/s a startup with less than 50 people offering me a 40% increase and a lucrative title (to go with the job). More often bigger companies were offering me smaller posts with probably lesser salary. If your startup is US based you shouldn't have much issues with salary and other things as with bigger cos (IMO).
I believe money by small co will be much more than the big co.
Good luck.
OB1
You seem to be unable to decide between a small co and a big co.
I disagree with Gator's post as there are different kinds of small companies. In your case you mentioned less than 100 unless you mean something like 15 - 20, not getting paid or getting paid less shouldn't be a concern. Sometimes small companies may pay much higher than a big co
a) even for the same position
b) more often the big company needs much higher qualification for higher posts so same person may get lower post.
I agree that small cos pay less for lower positions but when it comes to country head it would almost certainly beat what an associate mgr can get in a big co (assuming the big co is US based). I wouldn't join a big Indian based co like INFY/WIPRO etc.
Since you are undecided in small v/s big I would suggest to let money be the factor since job satisfaction will generally tend to be more for "country head" v/s "associate mgr" and that you do portray a desire for higher posts by thinking you have the potential.
In my job hunt process my US employer was giving me a promotion with much less salary v/s a startup with less than 50 people offering me a 40% increase and a lucrative title (to go with the job). More often bigger companies were offering me smaller posts with probably lesser salary. If your startup is US based you shouldn't have much issues with salary and other things as with bigger cos (IMO).
I believe money by small co will be much more than the big co.
Good luck.
OB1
Which offer to accept
I relocated from US in 2003 after staying for 5 years. I joined a US based small company in Bangalore as a Manager. Interview and everything happened in US. This company had around 150+ in US and around 10-15 in Bangalore. So I decided to join based on the potential to grow. Now its been 3.5 years in this company, you can call me country head(no one above me here actually) or toe my job is same. no growth very difficult to get a great job in Big firms but salary is great even today. Its not a good feeling actually. I have tried for more than 1 year to change my job. It is very difficult to change from small to big company in india. Lateral change in terms of designation is possible, but joining higher up is impossible.
Basically I think if the small company you join has great plans, vision is good and is not a pure consulting player then you can anticipate the growth and be a part of growth story. But if it is consulting then my feeling is it will not be great. Or the person running the show is at least intellectually solid and has a great background then may be you can learn few things.
One more big problem I see in small company is -- very difficult to get smart people, even if you pay better salary there are not many takers. So since delivery is your responsibility you end up working a lot to make them understand each and every thing, which believe me is not team building or anything, it is pure form of frustration.
Bottom line -- If the small company is a product based and not a pure consulting company then you have better chance of growing and enjoying.
This is just based on my experience please
Basically I think if the small company you join has great plans, vision is good and is not a pure consulting player then you can anticipate the growth and be a part of growth story. But if it is consulting then my feeling is it will not be great. Or the person running the show is at least intellectually solid and has a great background then may be you can learn few things.
One more big problem I see in small company is -- very difficult to get smart people, even if you pay better salary there are not many takers. So since delivery is your responsibility you end up working a lot to make them understand each and every thing, which believe me is not team building or anything, it is pure form of frustration.
Bottom line -- If the small company is a product based and not a pure consulting company then you have better chance of growing and enjoying.
This is just based on my experience please
Which offer to accept
OP,
If possible, wait a little longer and interview for more jobs. For your level of experience, you can shoot easily for a Manager position at these large companies and may be even a senior manager position if you have the right background. If you hastily join now as an associate manager, you might end up regretting later when you find peers or even people above you in the company less qualified than you.
These "try to grab him" opportunites always come first.
I am talking from first hand experience here.
Vair
If possible, wait a little longer and interview for more jobs. For your level of experience, you can shoot easily for a Manager position at these large companies and may be even a senior manager position if you have the right background. If you hastily join now as an associate manager, you might end up regretting later when you find peers or even people above you in the company less qualified than you.
These "try to grab him" opportunites always come first.
I am talking from first hand experience here.
Vair
Which offer to accept
Add in more options to decide..
From my personal Experience:
>> Amount of personal life you want - last time on my visit I joined a small firm - it was never a 8 hr day and it might run to 10-12 hrs atleast and 16 hrs on peak days.
>> You would be main responsible person and it will be tough to believe your junior in small firm as most of the junior staff are not talented to their position.
>> Everyday you got to talk to US person - so you will have to stay late..
>> Yes Everybody thinks they will keep their office life and personal life different but when you are in head/manager/lead position that is not possible.
>> It will be tough to justify why people left without notice or why work is pending as people left and they leave for tons of reasons - and so you will always need to keep employees in spare/ keep training them which is tough.
>> Salary above 18 lks would not make a huge difference after tax cuts/ deductions.
For my return this time - I have decided to join a mid level position in a big firm in my home town..
>> This will enable you to have enough time for your family - and I Guess this could be one of the reason in most ppl R2I..
>> You can time time off for other occasions- which are very common.
>> Little responsibility/ Better life.
And one more point - Social Status will not depend of what your make/ where you work - It is mostly dependent of how and what you spend on..
Add all these to your factors of decision and the decision will be clear..
>> Location, Salary, What are your needs, Time frame for family, Plan for your kids, kids interest, family expectations from you.. and then it is "Just a job", Company plans/Values ,Company plans for you. Think longterm even think of points like - If you are joining you kid in tennis you might need some time to spend with him for that..
Good Luck.. Let us know what you are going with..
From my personal Experience:
>> Amount of personal life you want - last time on my visit I joined a small firm - it was never a 8 hr day and it might run to 10-12 hrs atleast and 16 hrs on peak days.
>> You would be main responsible person and it will be tough to believe your junior in small firm as most of the junior staff are not talented to their position.
>> Everyday you got to talk to US person - so you will have to stay late..
>> Yes Everybody thinks they will keep their office life and personal life different but when you are in head/manager/lead position that is not possible.
>> It will be tough to justify why people left without notice or why work is pending as people left and they leave for tons of reasons - and so you will always need to keep employees in spare/ keep training them which is tough.
>> Salary above 18 lks would not make a huge difference after tax cuts/ deductions.
For my return this time - I have decided to join a mid level position in a big firm in my home town..
>> This will enable you to have enough time for your family - and I Guess this could be one of the reason in most ppl R2I..
>> You can time time off for other occasions- which are very common.
>> Little responsibility/ Better life.
And one more point - Social Status will not depend of what your make/ where you work - It is mostly dependent of how and what you spend on..
Add all these to your factors of decision and the decision will be clear..
>> Location, Salary, What are your needs, Time frame for family, Plan for your kids, kids interest, family expectations from you.. and then it is "Just a job", Company plans/Values ,Company plans for you. Think longterm even think of points like - If you are joining you kid in tennis you might need some time to spend with him for that..
Good Luck.. Let us know what you are going with..