http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6589157.stm
Exerpts:
"Astronomers have found the most Earth-like planet outside our Solar System to date, a world which could have water running on its surface.
The planet orbits the faint star Gliese 581, which is 20.5 light-years away in the constellation Libra.
They say the benign temperatures on the planet mean any water there could exist in liquid form, and this raises the chances it could also harbour life.
"We have estimated that the mean temperature of this 'super-Earth' lies between 0 and 40 degrees Celsius, and water would thus be liquid," explained Stephane Udry of the Geneva Observatory, lead author of the scientific paper reporting the result.
"Moreover, its radius should be only 1.5 times the Earth's radius, and models predict that the planet should be either rocky - like our Earth - or covered with oceans."
"However, given that the host star is smaller and colder than the Sun - and thus less luminous - the planet nevertheless lies in the "habitable zone", the region around a star where water could be liquid."
"'Is there life anywhere else?' is a fundamental question we all ask."
The Universe, Astronomy, Aliens, UFOs, etc.
The Universe, Astronomy, Aliens, UFOs, etc.
Also heard that because of its size the force of gravity would be much greater. One implication of this is that life forms would be dwarfed -- the newscast speculates that only insects would survive the temp & gravity.
At 20M LYrs how long would it take to get there at current speeds? (see below)
On a lighter note what's with our obsession for finding earth-like planets with water, atmosphere etc etc?
1. Can we not reconcile with the idea of being unique?
or
2. Is it the "A Canticle for Liebowitz" redux? { This sci-fi classic has as its plot a technologically superior theocratic society based in the West, (Texas) , at war with a more primitive society based in Asia in a post-apocalyptic world. In the end, representative members of the West, board a spacecraft to another planet to continue their civilization, having set nuclear explosives to destroy Earth and all its inhabitants. One character mutters "sic transit mundi or "thus ends the world"}.
Sometimes I wonder.
ksheer3
At 20M LYrs how long would it take to get there at current speeds? (see below)
On a lighter note what's with our obsession for finding earth-like planets with water, atmosphere etc etc?
1. Can we not reconcile with the idea of being unique?
or
2. Is it the "A Canticle for Liebowitz" redux? { This sci-fi classic has as its plot a technologically superior theocratic society based in the West, (Texas) , at war with a more primitive society based in Asia in a post-apocalyptic world. In the end, representative members of the West, board a spacecraft to another planet to continue their civilization, having set nuclear explosives to destroy Earth and all its inhabitants. One character mutters "sic transit mundi or "thus ends the world"}.
Sometimes I wonder.
ksheer3
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Desi_by_Nature
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#2
it's a strange concept man. I don't get it either.
We're 6.6 billion people and counting - yet we're "alone".
it's a strange concept man. I don't get it either.
We're 6.6 billion people and counting - yet we're "alone".
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Chicago Desi
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Lifeforms may survive at much different temperatures than we think. Also, life may exist in other combinations than the organic forms that we know.
Whether intelligent life exists or not is another debate altogether. What we have on our planet is quite unique and humans exist due to bizarre combinations and permutations of mutations. A few years ago, the WSJ carried an article that showed how a mutation in the mandibular jaw of early hominids allowed them to have a larger head, unconstraining the growth of the brain, due to which humans developed a larger brain compared to apes. Just shows how rare and valuable intelligent life is and how low the chances of intelligent life are.
Whether we are our own best enemies and on path of our self destruction is also a good debate. Our intelligence will need to grow dramatically and quickly for us to prevent us from hitting that self destruct button. I am hopeful that that day will come sooner than later.
The original Stat Trek was such a special show. It really opened our eyes to a lot of possibilities. I cannot watch any of the newer versions, but am still a big fan of the original series.
Whether intelligent life exists or not is another debate altogether. What we have on our planet is quite unique and humans exist due to bizarre combinations and permutations of mutations. A few years ago, the WSJ carried an article that showed how a mutation in the mandibular jaw of early hominids allowed them to have a larger head, unconstraining the growth of the brain, due to which humans developed a larger brain compared to apes. Just shows how rare and valuable intelligent life is and how low the chances of intelligent life are.
Whether we are our own best enemies and on path of our self destruction is also a good debate. Our intelligence will need to grow dramatically and quickly for us to prevent us from hitting that self destruct button. I am hopeful that that day will come sooner than later.
The original Stat Trek was such a special show. It really opened our eyes to a lot of possibilities. I cannot watch any of the newer versions, but am still a big fan of the original series.
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LLLLWhenR2I
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Ahaaa...
Yesterday I was watchhing dicovery and UFO sightings; recorded and seen were shown and then US govt. nulling all the reports despite videos of sighting.....
One professor argued and I have the same notions...why do we always search for "like we"...why can't there be a civilization so different from us? Why we assume that water is necessity of life?
I extend this to more....why do we think that all newton laws will be valid on the other planet....All of our theories could be wrong.....There also could be invisible residents on any planet in any of the galaxy.....What if the other civilization survive on some "eon" gas and not O2? The whole documentary was based on idea "earth like"....what if the other planet is Saturn like and temperature is 9000K or -9000K and still civilization exists......
Now Paul allen has set up private funding for to study any "ANY civilization" and just not "Earth like". All the big gizmos, radars [ATA - Allen Telescope
Array]are based out in CA to study. The ownership is being driven by SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence)
The surprising factor is that throughout the 2 hour I was sitting on this channel all the things were from US. No other country was counted for any sighting. I agree more than half of the world doesn't have any means....but I would very much like to see proof of sightings in more advanced nations such as Japan or Europe.
Yesterday I was watchhing dicovery and UFO sightings; recorded and seen were shown and then US govt. nulling all the reports despite videos of sighting.....
One professor argued and I have the same notions...why do we always search for "like we"...why can't there be a civilization so different from us? Why we assume that water is necessity of life?
I extend this to more....why do we think that all newton laws will be valid on the other planet....All of our theories could be wrong.....There also could be invisible residents on any planet in any of the galaxy.....What if the other civilization survive on some "eon" gas and not O2? The whole documentary was based on idea "earth like"....what if the other planet is Saturn like and temperature is 9000K or -9000K and still civilization exists......
Now Paul allen has set up private funding for to study any "ANY civilization" and just not "Earth like". All the big gizmos, radars [ATA - Allen Telescope
Array]are based out in CA to study. The ownership is being driven by SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence)
The surprising factor is that throughout the 2 hour I was sitting on this channel all the things were from US. No other country was counted for any sighting. I agree more than half of the world doesn't have any means....but I would very much like to see proof of sightings in more advanced nations such as Japan or Europe.
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Chicago Desi
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The Universe, Astronomy, Aliens, UFOs, etc.
LLLLWhenR2I;21528I agree more than half of the world doesn't have any means....but I would very much like to see proof of sightings in more advanced nations such as Japan or Europe.[/quote]
Very recently, France made public all their UFO investigations over the last 2 or 3 decades. All the info is on the web now.
The Universe, Astronomy, Aliens, UFOs, etc.
Chicago Desi;21526Lifeforms may survive at much different temperatures and we think. [/quote]
Agree.
[QUOTE]
Also, life may exist in other combinations than the organic forms that we know.
I have a tough time accepting inorganic life knowing what we know about matter.
[QUOTE]Whether intelligent life exists or not is another debate altogether. What we have on our planet is quite unique and humans exist due to bizarre combinations and permutations of mutations.
Our star, the sun was borne out of a super nova five billion years back. Supernovae occur at the rate of perhaps a few per 100 years in a galaxy. But there are about 100 to 125 billion galaxies that can be estimated / observed.
Some galaxies have 10 billion stars (very small ones) and others have 200 and 300 billion stars. With these numbers, you can see at almost anytime somewhere in the sky a super nova is occuring (and the supernova explosion huge though on cosmic scale lasts but only a few minutes or less) and yet this event is what we call rare because we just focus on our own galaxy. And the one of which we are the remnants (the elements in our body have been formed inside the crucible of the core of a star - Nuclear Fusion) occured five billion years back. There are supernova that were reasonably close and were observed with naked eye and are documented in history. A supernova when it occurs outshines millions of suns.
With that as the backdrop, the chances of us being unique are slim and life similar to us (reasonable variances) is a virtual certainity many times over. In my mind the chance that intelligent life is unique to our planet is non existent - zero. Life far more intelligent than ours exists on many planets - sure I cannot prove it but the probability of such is 99.99999 (whatever attach many more nines to it).
The Universe, Astronomy, Aliens, UFOs, etc.
>> why do we think that all newton laws will be valid on the other planet.
My understanding is that the fundamental laws of physics and mathematics will hold true through out the universe. This is probably true for the yet to be be discovered laws as well.
>> There also could be invisible residents on any planet in any of the galaxy.....What if the other civilization survive on some "eon" gas and not O2?
You are correct, we don't even have to look beyond our backyard to find such "other beings" as you have described.
(My daughter was telling me the other day that gasshoppers have ears on their tummies. Not sure if it is a fact, but would'nt be surprised if it is true.)
>> I would very much like to see proof of sightings in more advanced nations such as Japan or Europe.
Europe (England), Asia (China) have all reported plenty of UFO sightings.
My understanding is that the fundamental laws of physics and mathematics will hold true through out the universe. This is probably true for the yet to be be discovered laws as well.
>> There also could be invisible residents on any planet in any of the galaxy.....What if the other civilization survive on some "eon" gas and not O2?
You are correct, we don't even have to look beyond our backyard to find such "other beings" as you have described.
(My daughter was telling me the other day that gasshoppers have ears on their tummies. Not sure if it is a fact, but would'nt be surprised if it is true.)
>> I would very much like to see proof of sightings in more advanced nations such as Japan or Europe.
Europe (England), Asia (China) have all reported plenty of UFO sightings.
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Desi_by_Nature
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There is atleast theoritical evidence that silicon based life forms can exist since Silicon is very close to Carbon in chemical properties.
Here is some interesting info on that:
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/siliconlife.html
http://www.cmste.uncc.edu/new/papers/Can%20Silicon%20Based%20Life%20Exist.doc
Here is some interesting info on that:
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/siliconlife.html
http://www.cmste.uncc.edu/new/papers/Can%20Silicon%20Based%20Life%20Exist.doc
The Universe, Astronomy, Aliens, UFOs, etc.
[QUOTE]
Ahaaa...
Yesterday I was watchhing dicovery and UFO sightings; recorded and seen were shown and then US govt. nulling all the reports despite videos of sighting.....
Despite my 100% belief in intelligent life out there, I have zero belief that any of the UFOs are alien to earth. This stems from my understanding of the laws of physics.
[QUOTE]One professor argued and I have the same notions...why do we always search for "like we"...why can't there be a civilization so different from us?
I think everyone involved in searching for life agrees that any life out there is not going to be exactly the same as us and if ever uncovered may surprise us beyond our expectations. If a term "like we" is used, I beleive it is used to reference the basic attributes of life, that is all. One that procreates, and one that is intelligent.
[QUOTE]
Why we assume that water is necessity of life?
I don't think there is an assumption that water is necessary for life, but on the other hand if water is present then the chances of life are high and that is why water is one criteria for habitability. That planets without water may be habitable by other types of life is possible, but we do not know enough. If water is present we can call it a habitable planet (or at least one known criteria for habitability satisfied). Based on the structure of matter, presence of water increases probability of life.
[QUOTE]I extend this to more....why do we think that all newton laws will be valid on the other planet....All of our theories could be wrong.....
Not true. I think one needs to understand how the laws of physics hold true in all inertial frames. Einstein's Special relativity and general relativity. The laws of Physics hold in all euclidean frames of reference.
[QUOTE]There also could be invisible residents on any planet in any of the galaxy.....What if the other civilization survive on some "eon" gas and not O2?
Maybe invisible to human eyes, but they would emit, absorb certain spectra and human exploration of the extra terresterial goes far beyond visible spectrum. Do we know of matter that is invisible. After all matter is a combinations of neutrons, protons, electrons and we can explore the periodic table.
[QUOTE]The whole documentary was based on idea "earth like"....what if the other planet is Saturn like and temperature is 9000K or -9000K and still civilization exists......
Yes, science does not discount the possiblity that life could exist at temperatures different than ours, but the physics of matter will preclude the possiblity of this being very far different than ours. For example at the core of the sun the protons and neutrons are smashing into each other (due to temperature and pressure) and life is not possible because the matter of which life would be composed would disintegrate into sub atomic particles.
[QUOTE]
Now Paul allen has set up private funding for to study any "ANY civilization" and just not "Earth like". All the big gizmos, radars [ATA - Allen Telescope
Array]are based out in CA to study. The ownership is being driven by SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence)
SETI is a very worthwhile effort in my opinion.
[QUOTE]
The surprising factor is that throughout the 2 hour I was sitting on this channel all the things were from US. No other country was counted for any sighting. I agree more than half of the world doesn't have any means....but I would very much like to see proof of sightings in more advanced nations such as Japan or Europe.
Oh, there are UFO sightings in other countries also. Investigation of such in my opinion is a waste of money and effort.
Ahaaa...
Yesterday I was watchhing dicovery and UFO sightings; recorded and seen were shown and then US govt. nulling all the reports despite videos of sighting.....
Despite my 100% belief in intelligent life out there, I have zero belief that any of the UFOs are alien to earth. This stems from my understanding of the laws of physics.
[QUOTE]One professor argued and I have the same notions...why do we always search for "like we"...why can't there be a civilization so different from us?
I think everyone involved in searching for life agrees that any life out there is not going to be exactly the same as us and if ever uncovered may surprise us beyond our expectations. If a term "like we" is used, I beleive it is used to reference the basic attributes of life, that is all. One that procreates, and one that is intelligent.
[QUOTE]
Why we assume that water is necessity of life?
I don't think there is an assumption that water is necessary for life, but on the other hand if water is present then the chances of life are high and that is why water is one criteria for habitability. That planets without water may be habitable by other types of life is possible, but we do not know enough. If water is present we can call it a habitable planet (or at least one known criteria for habitability satisfied). Based on the structure of matter, presence of water increases probability of life.
[QUOTE]I extend this to more....why do we think that all newton laws will be valid on the other planet....All of our theories could be wrong.....
Not true. I think one needs to understand how the laws of physics hold true in all inertial frames. Einstein's Special relativity and general relativity. The laws of Physics hold in all euclidean frames of reference.
[QUOTE]There also could be invisible residents on any planet in any of the galaxy.....What if the other civilization survive on some "eon" gas and not O2?
Maybe invisible to human eyes, but they would emit, absorb certain spectra and human exploration of the extra terresterial goes far beyond visible spectrum. Do we know of matter that is invisible. After all matter is a combinations of neutrons, protons, electrons and we can explore the periodic table.
[QUOTE]The whole documentary was based on idea "earth like"....what if the other planet is Saturn like and temperature is 9000K or -9000K and still civilization exists......
Yes, science does not discount the possiblity that life could exist at temperatures different than ours, but the physics of matter will preclude the possiblity of this being very far different than ours. For example at the core of the sun the protons and neutrons are smashing into each other (due to temperature and pressure) and life is not possible because the matter of which life would be composed would disintegrate into sub atomic particles.
[QUOTE]
Now Paul allen has set up private funding for to study any "ANY civilization" and just not "Earth like". All the big gizmos, radars [ATA - Allen Telescope
Array]are based out in CA to study. The ownership is being driven by SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence)
SETI is a very worthwhile effort in my opinion.
[QUOTE]
The surprising factor is that throughout the 2 hour I was sitting on this channel all the things were from US. No other country was counted for any sighting. I agree more than half of the world doesn't have any means....but I would very much like to see proof of sightings in more advanced nations such as Japan or Europe.
Oh, there are UFO sightings in other countries also. Investigation of such in my opinion is a waste of money and effort.