Hi,
understand that it is going to be a controversial subject though I've no intention to offenend
anyone or hurt anyone's feeling--I'm looking for a healthy intellectual discussion on this topic.
Reasons people R2I are:
1. Aging Parents
2. Sense of beloning.
3. Giveing Indian culture to kids.
I completely understand and respect #1 and #2 above. I've questions about #3 above..what's so
much better in india Culture? I used to think Indian culture is way better as well till I'm
getting to understand US culture better and below are my points on why I'm chagng my view on
cultures and would love to hear yours.
1. Kids having pre-marital affair and relations(you know what I mean)--this is only thing I do
not like in Us culture as compared to india. but isn't indian metro citis going same way?
2. Marriage--we say that indians stay in marriages longer--Are they happy? Don't many of us just
continue to live love-less marriages and I've seen kids(now adults) of such marriages to be way
worse then if their parents were seperated--and I do not mean financially.
3. Difference in girls and boys--I know things are changing but fact remains majority of people
still are happier to get biys then girls. Even my personal experience--when my lil girl was born
one of my 'friend'(staying in US--enginner himself) said that it was better for us if we had
boy--honestly, I felt like killing that person but fact stays..mentallity of us 'indians' isn't
changed yet!
4. Social bad things--no matter how much we talk--it is there--how many of you did not take a
single paisa dowry? (hats off to those who did not but what's % of such people). Dowry is only
one example, take the domestic voilence...indian women usually don't complain since they're taught tolerence since childhood, how sad!
5. Responsibilities--US culture teaches kids to take responsibilties from childhood e.g. making
their own bed in morning. In india, parents do all this stuff and when kids grow up and have to
face it themselves--becomes hard. keeping stuff around us clean is biggest example I can think
right now. How many Indian kids have those values built from childhood?
6. I hear people compalaining that american kids leaving their parents in old age home. I hear
stories like kids leaving their aged parents in 'khubh mela' so they can not come back--how
mean!. Point being bad people are on both sides of world.
7. People complain about kids leaving their parents home when they're 18. I've some american
friends whose kids are staying with them even when they're older and parents supporting those.
8. Festivals--don;t US has those too? We just like Indian ones better as we cherised them in our childhood--no?
9. Respect for elders---is it really worse in US then india? Just calling someone by name or some other adjective--does that really make so much difference? If you call someone 'uncle' but are not respectful or call them by their name with respect--which one is better, personally I prefer later.
10. work culture--india--they count by 3 of hours you work and in US it is counted by how much you work--isn't later better? When I worked in India, I faced this myself that even though I was doing much more\better then people who stayed longer hours--they were given higeher status--even when they just stayed and chatted. How many times in Us people cancel their vacation for work? how many times in india people do that? Isn't priorities bit im-balanced there? Talk about govt office(my father was in one) only few people did work(my father being one of them) and rest of them just went and came back but growth was always based on # of yrs and not whether you deliver or not..
I can go on and on but basically, trying to see why people think Indian culture is better then US. Again, not trying to offend anyone and looking forward for a healthy and intelletual dicussion and your views over the matter...
Thanks!
Culture --US vs India
Culture --US vs India
Hahaaha...You opened big pandora box....read below my comments...
INCorUSC;33971Hi,
understand that it is going to be a controversial subject though I've no intention to offenend
anyone or hurt anyone's feeling--I'm looking for a healthy intellectual discussion on this topic.
Reasons people R2I are:
1. Aging Parents
2. Sense of beloning.
3. Giveing Indian culture to kids.
I completely understand and respect #1 and #2 above. I've questions about #3 above..what's so
much better in india Culture? I used to think Indian culture is way better as well till I'm
getting to understand US culture better and below are my points on why I'm chagng my view on
cultures and would love to hear yours.
1. Kids having pre-marital affair and relations(you know what I mean)--this is only thing I do
not like in Us culture as compared to india. but isn't indian metro citis going same way?
Those are all exceptional cases in india and they strugled their entire life for donig that.
Have you ever come across such things in your circle? If so, what is their status now? .(Most of the people would have seen on news papers)
2. Marriage--we say that indians stay in marriages longer--Are they happy? Don't many of us just
continue to live love-less marriages and I've seen kids(now adults) of such marriages to be way
worse then if their parents were seperated--and I do not mean financially.
So, you support seperation.
Those are all exceptional cases in india and they strugled their entire life seperation.
Have you ever come across such things in your circle? If so, what is their status now? .(Most of the people would have seen on news papers).
3. Difference in girls and boys--I know things are changing but fact remains majority of people
still are happier to get biys then girls. Even my personal experience--when my lil girl was born
one of my 'friend'(staying in US--enginner himself) said that it was better for us if we had
boy--honestly, I felt like killing that person but fact stays..mentallity of us 'indians' isn't
changed yet!
That is due to the parents inability of with standing for wrong doings(if at all) of daugters when they are grown. Do you have that ability?
If the answer is YES, no comments?
If you do not show the difference in bringing up sons and daughters, she will have trouble when she gets married and typically end up in seperation.
4. Social bad things--no matter how much we talk--it is there--how many of you did not take a
single paisa dowry? (hats off to those who did not but what's % of such people). Dowry is only
one example, take the domestic voilence...indian women usually don't complain since they're taught tolerence since childhood, how sad!
You may call it as dowry. It can be bride's portion of wealth too.
If there is no premium, every bride wants to get married to not less than Rahul gandhi.
Also, can you donate you portion of wealth to your brother or sister, just because you have a job?
5. Responsibilities--US culture teaches kids to take responsibilties from childhood e.g. making
their own bed in morning. In india, parents do all this stuff and when kids grow up and have to
face it themselves--becomes hard. keeping stuff around us clean is biggest example I can think
right now. How many Indian kids have those values built from childhood?
So, you encourage child labour.
I think, our system is good and children enjoy more love and affection from their family. This also teaches them how to help family when they are grown. It also strengthen the bond among the family.
Win Win system, parents take care of children when they are young, and children pay back when their parents become old.
6. I hear people compalaining that american kids leaving their parents in old age home. I hear
stories like kids leaving their aged parents in 'khubh mela' so they can not come back--how
mean!. Point being bad people are on both sides of world.
Those are all exceptional cases in india.
It is, parents not following the system, that is
"Win Win system, parents take care of children when they are young, and children pay back when their parents become old."
7. People complain about kids leaving their parents home when they're 18. I've some american
friends whose kids are staying with them even when they're older and parents supporting those.
Those are all exceptional cases in US.
8. Festivals--don;t US has those too? We just like Indian ones better as we cherised them in our childhood--no?
This is a compromising statement.
So, you sit at home or go for driving during US festivals.
How different is it from living in jungle and moving around?
9. Respect for elders---is it really worse in US then india? Just calling someone by name or some other adjective--does that really make so much difference? If you call someone 'uncle' but are not respectful or call them by their name with respect--which one is better, personally I prefer later.
Ok, Do you have ability to withstand, when your son/daughter scolds you in public.
Indain parents can not digest that.
10. work culture--india--they count by 3 of hours you work and in US it is counted by how much you work--isn't later better? When I worked in India, I faced this myself that even though I was doing much more\better then people who stayed longer hours--they were given higeher status--even when they just stayed and chatted. How many times in Us people cancel their vacation for work? how many times in india people do that? Isn't priorities bit im-balanced there? Talk about govt office(my father was in one) only few people did work(my father being one of them) and rest of them just went and came back but growth was always based on # of yrs and not whether you deliver or not..
Any Govt office in US is same too. Only difference is you pay for every thing as a fee in US, and in india, you expect every thing free.
Our indian employers taught us to work like the above. If you don't like it, start your own. Slaves will not have choice to choose. They have to follow their boss at work.
I can go on and on but basically, trying to see why people think Indian culture is better then US. Again, not trying to offend anyone and looking forward for a healthy and intelletual dicussion and your views over the matter...
Thanks!
There are other things such as religious things, children marriage with good families, community surroundings etc.
[/quote]
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direstraits88
- Posts: 746
- Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:10 am
Culture --US vs India
Most desis have one "big" reason and culture is usually not the one..
When they refer to culture, it has more to do with the fact that education has top priority in India unlike the U.S. It's "cool" to be a geek in India. (Chicks dig it too !). So they want to give their kids, the double advantage..
Good school education.. Chance of making to a IVY league school on scholarship since the kid is american..
In the U.S, lot of desis have high expectation of these ABCD kids who feel they are out of the mainstream.. No staying out late.. Straights A in all subjects.. Girlfriend/boyfriend is frowned upon..
While kids accept the above in India (And ofcourse the girlfriend/boyfriend is hush hush...! There's a thrill in that...), they tend to do well..
I know of a USC kid whose mother moved to India when the kid was in 8th grade and the father lived in the U.S.
The kid went to school in India till March and they spend the next 2 months of school in the U.S. He would attend another 1-2 months during the regular year.
Since the education level is higher in India, he was the school top student in the U.S even though he attended school for only 4 months every year in high school. He finished school and got accepted to a top school in the U.S with full scholarship.
My neighbour in Bangalore is a USC kid studying to become a veterianian in India and then move back to the U.S. For him, it was a cost issue...
When they refer to culture, it has more to do with the fact that education has top priority in India unlike the U.S. It's "cool" to be a geek in India. (Chicks dig it too !). So they want to give their kids, the double advantage..
Good school education.. Chance of making to a IVY league school on scholarship since the kid is american..
In the U.S, lot of desis have high expectation of these ABCD kids who feel they are out of the mainstream.. No staying out late.. Straights A in all subjects.. Girlfriend/boyfriend is frowned upon..
While kids accept the above in India (And ofcourse the girlfriend/boyfriend is hush hush...! There's a thrill in that...), they tend to do well..
I know of a USC kid whose mother moved to India when the kid was in 8th grade and the father lived in the U.S.
The kid went to school in India till March and they spend the next 2 months of school in the U.S. He would attend another 1-2 months during the regular year.
Since the education level is higher in India, he was the school top student in the U.S even though he attended school for only 4 months every year in high school. He finished school and got accepted to a top school in the U.S with full scholarship.
My neighbour in Bangalore is a USC kid studying to become a veterianian in India and then move back to the U.S. For him, it was a cost issue...
Culture --US vs India
I do see value in desi_perdesi's post. people move for other reasons then culture and education being one of them--completely agree. but there are people who do claim they're moving for cultural reasons...I agree that education, at least acedemically, is much more in India as compared to US and that also at a lower cost...
Though I disagree with most comments of babuvrr...looks like you got offended..which was not my intention..
having pre-martial affairs and s.. is not uncommon in India anymore...specially in metro's like Bombay etc.
for marriages, I support overall well being of child and if that means parents living seperately (due to un-healthy parents relations)..that's better for kids and adults..when such kids grow up.
There's a HUGE difference between childlabor and kids helping out *at home* to their parents...I support kids helping out their parents at home to teach them sense of responsibility..I do that with my kids and they feels good after helping me out as they feels sense of achievment--helps self confidence in kids....I would support my kids as much as I can till when I can..my point is I want them to feel responsible for their actions starting from childhood..so they've solid foundations.
Also, you think boys and girls'should' be raised seperately? ..Indian girl would have trouble if raised same ways as boys but american would not...and that's the thing I HATE(allow me to be honest) about indian culture..it teaches girls are inferior then boys to childs.... Why should girl have to compromise more? Isn't it about time that us, indian parents, change to teach our boys to be more respectful\compromising towards women in their life? Rememer ancient india where women were really respected hence it was 'sone ki chidiya' and Inda suffered when women suffered..
So you support dowry? Looks like you've not come across a father who had to struggle to ather dowry for her daughters to get her married to a good home. I guess you do not have any sister, do you?
I've yet to see a american child scolding their parents in public..may be it's just me. kids leaving parents in old age in NOt exceptional in India..In my distant friends circle..I've experienced that myself...
for "There are other things such as religious things, children marriage with good families, community surroundings etc."
We feel that since we belong to India in childhood..Us has religuos things, good community surrounding..once you know them and of course good families.
Though I disagree with most comments of babuvrr...looks like you got offended..which was not my intention..
having pre-martial affairs and s.. is not uncommon in India anymore...specially in metro's like Bombay etc.
for marriages, I support overall well being of child and if that means parents living seperately (due to un-healthy parents relations)..that's better for kids and adults..when such kids grow up.
There's a HUGE difference between childlabor and kids helping out *at home* to their parents...I support kids helping out their parents at home to teach them sense of responsibility..I do that with my kids and they feels good after helping me out as they feels sense of achievment--helps self confidence in kids....I would support my kids as much as I can till when I can..my point is I want them to feel responsible for their actions starting from childhood..so they've solid foundations.
Also, you think boys and girls'should' be raised seperately? ..Indian girl would have trouble if raised same ways as boys but american would not...and that's the thing I HATE(allow me to be honest) about indian culture..it teaches girls are inferior then boys to childs.... Why should girl have to compromise more? Isn't it about time that us, indian parents, change to teach our boys to be more respectful\compromising towards women in their life? Rememer ancient india where women were really respected hence it was 'sone ki chidiya' and Inda suffered when women suffered..
So you support dowry? Looks like you've not come across a father who had to struggle to ather dowry for her daughters to get her married to a good home. I guess you do not have any sister, do you?
I've yet to see a american child scolding their parents in public..may be it's just me. kids leaving parents in old age in NOt exceptional in India..In my distant friends circle..I've experienced that myself...
for "There are other things such as religious things, children marriage with good families, community surroundings etc."
We feel that since we belong to India in childhood..Us has religuos things, good community surrounding..once you know them and of course good families.
Culture --US vs India
Qoute - " 6. I hear people compalaining that american kids leaving their parents in old age home. I hear
stories like kids leaving their aged parents in 'khubh mela' so they can not come back--how
mean!. Point being bad people are on both sides of world. " - unqoute.
Yes, that is true. Bad people on both sides. The difference is in perception.
A son in India deserting his parents is looked down upon. In usa it is the expected and accepted situation.
stories like kids leaving their aged parents in 'khubh mela' so they can not come back--how
mean!. Point being bad people are on both sides of world. " - unqoute.
Yes, that is true. Bad people on both sides. The difference is in perception.
A son in India deserting his parents is looked down upon. In usa it is the expected and accepted situation.
Culture --US vs India
DBS, see your point..but doesn't it mean people move R2I to India so their kids can take care of tem whey're older..in other words..they move for 'themselves' rather then kids?
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Old-Spice2
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:38 pm
Culture --US vs India
>>>but doesn't it mean people move R2I to India so their kids can take care of tem whey're older..in other words..they move for 'themselves' rather then kids?
You can look at it from a different way - how about kids in US leaving parents and go on their own? Is it not selfishness and lack of gratitude? One party has to be selfish and think about "themselves". It is your call.
You can look at it from a different way - how about kids in US leaving parents and go on their own? Is it not selfishness and lack of gratitude? One party has to be selfish and think about "themselves". It is your call.
Culture --US vs India
I got only one thing to say: I personally have not done any of the things you said, and when I R2I I plan on not encouraging any of the points for my children as well. It's your personal call and it depends on your situation. If feel that you and/or your kids can not make it with situations in India then you better LIA.
My 2 paisa
My 2 paisa
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Anu_Global
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:35 pm
Culture --US vs India
babuvrr
I differ u strongly on child labor, if u call helping in household work then God helps u!! what do u call small girls as maids in Indian Households? after r2ing, I personaly saw so called respectable rich people in a decent community where lot of RNRI's are also residing, hiring small girls (9-11 yrs) doing work from 5am till midnight for Rs. 200 month. with harsh beatings. (what a hypocrisy- we do 9 days puja for devi)
My point is if yr kids are growing up seeing this CULTURE all this considering household work as a low grade they will never respect people who are doing these kind of work. In US all are taught to respect each and every profession. Helping parents in not child labour. Kids growing in this kind of culture will do the same. Even we have maid here but we still teach our kids to do their basic jobs themselves. not like the kids here who are dependent on the maids for wearing shoes! ( they r not very small kids) Actually the kids who r totally dependent on maids have more problem in their married life specially boys.. when they want all rounder working wife but don't want to help in household work becoz parents like u don't WANT THEM TO BECOME CHILD LABOR!!!
You totally seems to be an male chauvisnist. Good u don't want to live in US -where man & woman are treated equally.
So, you encourage child labour.
I think, our system is good and children enjoy more love and affection from their family. This also teaches them how to help family when they are grown. It also strengthen the bond among the family.
Win Win system, parents take care of children when they are young, and children pay back when their parents become old.
I differ u strongly on child labor, if u call helping in household work then God helps u!! what do u call small girls as maids in Indian Households? after r2ing, I personaly saw so called respectable rich people in a decent community where lot of RNRI's are also residing, hiring small girls (9-11 yrs) doing work from 5am till midnight for Rs. 200 month. with harsh beatings. (what a hypocrisy- we do 9 days puja for devi)
My point is if yr kids are growing up seeing this CULTURE all this considering household work as a low grade they will never respect people who are doing these kind of work. In US all are taught to respect each and every profession. Helping parents in not child labour. Kids growing in this kind of culture will do the same. Even we have maid here but we still teach our kids to do their basic jobs themselves. not like the kids here who are dependent on the maids for wearing shoes! ( they r not very small kids) Actually the kids who r totally dependent on maids have more problem in their married life specially boys.. when they want all rounder working wife but don't want to help in household work becoz parents like u don't WANT THEM TO BECOME CHILD LABOR!!!
You totally seems to be an male chauvisnist. Good u don't want to live in US -where man & woman are treated equally.
So, you encourage child labour.
I think, our system is good and children enjoy more love and affection from their family. This also teaches them how to help family when they are grown. It also strengthen the bond among the family.
Win Win system, parents take care of children when they are young, and children pay back when their parents become old.
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Anu_Global
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:35 pm
Culture --US vs India
INCorUSC
We r2ied 2 years ago. You are right- don't r2i just becoz u want to give your kids Indian Culture.
Few things I want to add regarding this:
1. All the kids who have r2ied are most behaved and well cultured. (After talking to teachers in PTA meetings and Piano Teacher) They value time and don;t have "chalta hai " attitude.
2. Most educated and so called decent people are least bothered about clean and friendly environment. They just clean their homes throw the garbage out.(so u can imagine what they r reaching their kids) On the other hand R2ied kids never throw here and there.
One time my husband went to Mumbai for office work. As soon as he came out from the airport, he saw a nice "gentleman" wearing suit and tie threw banana peel carelessely. My husband couldn't take it, he approached him nicely but besharme se he said - so what? as it is only govt's responsibility to clean!!!
3. Manners: don't wait for their turns in line.
In a tennis court area where lot of kids were practising inside the compond, I saw 2 teenages driving very fast their new car. I told them politely to drive slow as so many kids are there. With SO good manners they were very rude to me.
4. People who crib most about discrimination in US, and others are the people who are ready to fight on cast and behave bad towards low category jobs workers. I have seen "big" people shouting unnecesserily on liftman, dhobi etc... what they are teaching to their kids?
My friend (who also r2ied)told me about one family kicking in the stomach of a 11 year girl maid by the teenage boys. Finally she couldn't take it, gave money to that girl to send her back to her village.
5. Still women are killed becoz they are not able to bear male child or becoz of dowry. ( one dowry case where in-laws were famous doctors!!)
6. There is no empathy left. One of my friend had an accident and he was lying unconscious, people took away his purse,watch, moble instrad of informing ambulance or police. Finally after recovering he go tthe offer frm US he is now in US.
7. People as soon as they know u have come back from US, they start degrading US as a whole ( we never shows off, actually we are always reluctant to even tell that we have moved back) No respect for other people's choices.
Kids who are good they will do good in studies no matter where they are.
We r2ied 2 years ago. You are right- don't r2i just becoz u want to give your kids Indian Culture.
Few things I want to add regarding this:
1. All the kids who have r2ied are most behaved and well cultured. (After talking to teachers in PTA meetings and Piano Teacher) They value time and don;t have "chalta hai " attitude.
2. Most educated and so called decent people are least bothered about clean and friendly environment. They just clean their homes throw the garbage out.(so u can imagine what they r reaching their kids) On the other hand R2ied kids never throw here and there.
One time my husband went to Mumbai for office work. As soon as he came out from the airport, he saw a nice "gentleman" wearing suit and tie threw banana peel carelessely. My husband couldn't take it, he approached him nicely but besharme se he said - so what? as it is only govt's responsibility to clean!!!
3. Manners: don't wait for their turns in line.
In a tennis court area where lot of kids were practising inside the compond, I saw 2 teenages driving very fast their new car. I told them politely to drive slow as so many kids are there. With SO good manners they were very rude to me.
4. People who crib most about discrimination in US, and others are the people who are ready to fight on cast and behave bad towards low category jobs workers. I have seen "big" people shouting unnecesserily on liftman, dhobi etc... what they are teaching to their kids?
My friend (who also r2ied)told me about one family kicking in the stomach of a 11 year girl maid by the teenage boys. Finally she couldn't take it, gave money to that girl to send her back to her village.
5. Still women are killed becoz they are not able to bear male child or becoz of dowry. ( one dowry case where in-laws were famous doctors!!)
6. There is no empathy left. One of my friend had an accident and he was lying unconscious, people took away his purse,watch, moble instrad of informing ambulance or police. Finally after recovering he go tthe offer frm US he is now in US.
7. People as soon as they know u have come back from US, they start degrading US as a whole ( we never shows off, actually we are always reluctant to even tell that we have moved back) No respect for other people's choices.
Kids who are good they will do good in studies no matter where they are.