Do you believe in Aryan invasion theory, determining the very basis of today's Indian spirituality, religion, culture etc.?
See these videos for a different point of view.
Scientific verification of Vedic Knowledge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4Q2xx7BTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2vhCPBjqcA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlisMg4VPo
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
Carl Segan - Hindu cosmology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASwlMPNXU-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASwlMPNXU-I
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
AIT: Aryan Invasion Theory
AMT: Aryan Migration Theory
The issues, as I see it, are:
(i) Who were the people who composed the Rig Veda (earliest of the 4 Vedas)? Were they indigenous inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent or people who came from outside the subcontinent and then composed the Rig Veda?
(ii) If they came from outside, did they come in forcibly (invasion) by displacing the indigenous people or immigrate peacefully without any clashes or displacement of indigenous people?
I am inclined to believe that they came from outside over a period of time, and that while not not all of the immigration was invasion, it was accompanied (perhaps even after settling) by sporadic clashes within them and also with others. So my tenative conclusion is that it was AMT with clashes not a wholescale AIT. Am open on this issue.
That said, it may help to be aware (so that we can assess credibilities of sources and look at the issue independent of political inclinations) of political incentives related to this issue:
The Hindu right is wedded to what is called the Punyabhoomi - Pitrbhoomi doctrine. Per the doctrine, India belongs to those to whom India is Punyabhoomi (whose religious places are located in Indian subcontinent) and those whose ancestors were born in Indian subcontinent (Pitrbhoomi). This doctrine seeks to exclude Christians and Muslims from the definition of proper Indians. The doctrine would suffer a blow if history shows that the people who composed the Rig Veda came from outside India (Pitrbhoomi would be outside India). Hence efforts to persuade people that Aryans are indigenous. The Hindu right therefore uses the term Vanavaasi (forest dwellers) to describe some of the scheduled tribes of India who are otherwise called Adivaasi (original inhabitants).
The Indian Left has its own agenda and would like to show that Aryans came from outside so that the Pitrbhoomi doctrine is broken.
In recent times, evidence challenging wholescale AIT seems to have emerged. To my mind, the overall evidence still supports AMT, if not AIT.
AMT: Aryan Migration Theory
The issues, as I see it, are:
(i) Who were the people who composed the Rig Veda (earliest of the 4 Vedas)? Were they indigenous inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent or people who came from outside the subcontinent and then composed the Rig Veda?
(ii) If they came from outside, did they come in forcibly (invasion) by displacing the indigenous people or immigrate peacefully without any clashes or displacement of indigenous people?
I am inclined to believe that they came from outside over a period of time, and that while not not all of the immigration was invasion, it was accompanied (perhaps even after settling) by sporadic clashes within them and also with others. So my tenative conclusion is that it was AMT with clashes not a wholescale AIT. Am open on this issue.
That said, it may help to be aware (so that we can assess credibilities of sources and look at the issue independent of political inclinations) of political incentives related to this issue:
The Hindu right is wedded to what is called the Punyabhoomi - Pitrbhoomi doctrine. Per the doctrine, India belongs to those to whom India is Punyabhoomi (whose religious places are located in Indian subcontinent) and those whose ancestors were born in Indian subcontinent (Pitrbhoomi). This doctrine seeks to exclude Christians and Muslims from the definition of proper Indians. The doctrine would suffer a blow if history shows that the people who composed the Rig Veda came from outside India (Pitrbhoomi would be outside India). Hence efforts to persuade people that Aryans are indigenous. The Hindu right therefore uses the term Vanavaasi (forest dwellers) to describe some of the scheduled tribes of India who are otherwise called Adivaasi (original inhabitants).
The Indian Left has its own agenda and would like to show that Aryans came from outside so that the Pitrbhoomi doctrine is broken.
In recent times, evidence challenging wholescale AIT seems to have emerged. To my mind, the overall evidence still supports AMT, if not AIT.
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
This is just another example of history is nothing but trouble.
Who cares whether they came from outside or inside ? Just verify whether they are inside India on August 15, 1947 and move on. :)
Who cares whether they came from outside or inside ? Just verify whether they are inside India on August 15, 1947 and move on. :)
-
bengal_tiger
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:51 pm
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
Tejasvee,
This is a very powerful collection of videos. Thanks for sharing these
with us.
While, I am not a historian, and do not have enough of a background
in history to analyze the theories, I will say this: The vedic literature is
perhaps the most rich and powerful collection of thoughts of independent
minded people who dared to express their opinions irrespective of what was
the prevailing doctrine of the day. This may be the reason why this
tradition has survived through antiquity to modern times.
I believe that irrespective of where the spiritual tradition of India,
came from, it belongs to the whole world as a the famous Sanskrit
phrase "Vasudhaiva kutumbakam" nicely summarizes. Personally,
I can vouch that on many occasions, merely reading a random
phrase from the Srimad Bhagwadgita has made my day, and I am sure
that it has done the same for many people.
Here is a link to a very touching statement made by Dr. J. Robert
Oppenheimer, known as the "father of the atomic bomb", who
himself was deeply influenced by the Vedic philosophy:
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Movies/Movie8.shtml
This is a very powerful collection of videos. Thanks for sharing these
with us.
While, I am not a historian, and do not have enough of a background
in history to analyze the theories, I will say this: The vedic literature is
perhaps the most rich and powerful collection of thoughts of independent
minded people who dared to express their opinions irrespective of what was
the prevailing doctrine of the day. This may be the reason why this
tradition has survived through antiquity to modern times.
I believe that irrespective of where the spiritual tradition of India,
came from, it belongs to the whole world as a the famous Sanskrit
phrase "Vasudhaiva kutumbakam" nicely summarizes. Personally,
I can vouch that on many occasions, merely reading a random
phrase from the Srimad Bhagwadgita has made my day, and I am sure
that it has done the same for many people.
Here is a link to a very touching statement made by Dr. J. Robert
Oppenheimer, known as the "father of the atomic bomb", who
himself was deeply influenced by the Vedic philosophy:
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Movies/Movie8.shtml
-
Chicago Desi
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:24 am
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
Bobus;31751
I am inclined to believe that they came from outside over a period of time, and that while not not all of the immigration was invasion, it was accompanied (perhaps even after settling) by sporadic clashes within them and also with others. So my tenative conclusion is that it was AMT with clashes not a wholescale AIT. Am open on this issue.[/quote]
Bobus,
What, other than the right wing propaganda and interests, leads you to believe that the so called Aryans were not indigenous people? I have not seen anything convincing yet that you may have.
Let me point out that the white man had a vested interest to claim that Aryans came to India from another region since they could somehow show that the local people were too inferior to develop sophisticated (for those times) thought processes and sciences.
As far as theories go, one can also believe that Aryans came from the sunken island of Atlantis. Since there is no convincing evidence for either arguments, it becomes a matter of faith at this point.
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
Thanks for the responses.
The biggest flaw I see with Aryan migration/invasion theory is that, if they were so advanced compared to the local dravidians, how come there is so little archeological evidence of their 'homeland'.
Where did they move into India from? West of Caucuses? Iran? Uzbek/Turkmenistan? Afghanistan? Russia? Kazakistan? Mangolia via curvy route bypassing Himalayas? Syria/Iraq?
If they were so advanced for that generation, they would have left a good mark in their 'homeland' or the path of their journey. I am sure it would have taken years if not centuries for a movement towards India.
Someone suggested once that this might have been a stone age 'R2I'! Maybe these inhabitants of India moved out westwards, but moved back later displacing a different race that had taken up their place.
On the other hand, the biggest supporting factor for Aryan migration is the very apparant race differences in today's Indian structure. The Punjabi, Rajasthani, Sindhi, Gujarati features are very different from Oriyan, Andhra or Karnataka features. There definitely has been a major mix of two or three races over a long period of time.
The difference is very obvious when you make a Kashmiri stand next to a Tamilian and a Assamese.
The biggest flaw I see with Aryan migration/invasion theory is that, if they were so advanced compared to the local dravidians, how come there is so little archeological evidence of their 'homeland'.
Where did they move into India from? West of Caucuses? Iran? Uzbek/Turkmenistan? Afghanistan? Russia? Kazakistan? Mangolia via curvy route bypassing Himalayas? Syria/Iraq?
If they were so advanced for that generation, they would have left a good mark in their 'homeland' or the path of their journey. I am sure it would have taken years if not centuries for a movement towards India.
Someone suggested once that this might have been a stone age 'R2I'! Maybe these inhabitants of India moved out westwards, but moved back later displacing a different race that had taken up their place.
On the other hand, the biggest supporting factor for Aryan migration is the very apparant race differences in today's Indian structure. The Punjabi, Rajasthani, Sindhi, Gujarati features are very different from Oriyan, Andhra or Karnataka features. There definitely has been a major mix of two or three races over a long period of time.
The difference is very obvious when you make a Kashmiri stand next to a Tamilian and a Assamese.
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
anand1;31755This is just another example of history is nothing but trouble. Who cares whether they came from outside or inside ?[/quote]
There is something called as heritage. Some people have the natural curiosity to find out the source of their family's gene pool. If you are not interested, feel free to ignore such discussions.
Also, if we fail to learn from history, we will end up repeating the same mistakes that our forefathers did.
-
HighTorque
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:15 am
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
AIT and AMT are all crap, folks who are jealous of brahman and shatriya supremacy in the past like to keep harping on that.
As for as phoren indologists who keep mentioning about AIT and AMT, it is just their theories and will remain one.
As for as phoren indologists who keep mentioning about AIT and AMT, it is just their theories and will remain one.
-
HighTorque
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:15 am
Why are they teaching Aryan Invasion still?
tejasvee;31786
Also, if we fail to learn from history, we will end up repeating the same mistakes that our forefathers did.
Well said.