recommend good websites for online contract jobs

[cnu]

Greetings all,

I know a very good coder, because of some obligations he cannot work in a regular IT company. Lemme put it like this, is there a way he can execute some coding work for a company online?

Do you know, any good website that people used to hire contract coders?

It'd be nice to hear if someone is already benefitting from it.

Thanks for reading!

ps: anyone used this: http://www.gofreelance.com/software/software-development-contract.html

[IndianByDefault]

cnu there are many online sites like this but I will tell you one thing. If your friend the good coder is living in the US he is going to have a tough time competing for the projects. Pretty much all of these online sites have been taken over by offshore contractors from india, pakistan etc. Most of those bidders are not just individuals but organized companies that can easily undercut your bid. They also have a very rich and established portfolio of projects that they can use to impress the client and they will undercut your bid by a significant amount that it won't be worth it for you anymore.

On the other hand if your friend is in India then one good business is to get some coders under his wing and start bidding on projects. Pretty soon he could have a well established business going.

[arjuna]

Rent a coder is one of the better ones out there.

http://www.rentacoder.com

However, I agree with the assessment that Indian firms/developers are all over this model of project development and it?s tough to stay competitive.

[r2i4c]

There are others, too, such as guru.com, and odesk.com.

The problem with such online job outsourcing concepts, based on my initial research, is that the job posters expect to hire extremely cheap labor. It is not meant for sustainable livelihood - neither in the US, nor in a metro such as Bangalore, Shanghai, or what have you.

There is a market need here - run a Web based brokering operation to make buyers meet with sellers who are talented, professional, intelligent, and don't market cheap labor as their core competency. In other words, in such an online brokering operation, the professional could be in India, in US or in China, but he will bid the same rates i.e. the World market rates, and the buyer of their skills is not looking for cheap labor but rather skilled, quality labor.

I am strongly hoping to see the removal of labor rate discrepancy based on sheer geography during my lifetime. Why should an IT professional in India be paid 1/3rd or 1/2nd, or whatever? So long as he is as productive as his counterpart in Europe and America, he should be paid the same.

I see a lot of wrong in the labor arbitrage going on in the World today. It is unfair and unjust, and is certainly not true capitalism. A capitalist society offers the same opportunity regardless of geography, on the basis of productivity. It is unfair for a business to assume that a worker in India is less productive than a worker in the US simply because India is a developing country. I see everything wrong with this assumption. I have returned from the US, and had taken a transfer on my current US job. I will be doing the same things, would be measured on the same performance metric as my American colleagues would be, and yet, I would have to take a pay cut simply because I am in India. It is sheer anti-capitalism!

What do others think? I think I should post a main thread to discuss this.

Regards,
R2I4C.

[vizagdesi]

There are others, too, such as guru.com, and odesk.com.

The problem with such online job outsourcing concepts, based on my initial research, is that the job posters expect to hire extremely cheap labor. It is not meant for sustainable livelihood - neither in the US, nor in a metro such as Bangalore, Shanghai, or what have you.

There is a market need here - run a Web based brokering operation to make buyers meet with sellers who are talented, professional, intelligent, and don't market cheap labor as their core competency. In other words, in such an online brokering operation, the professional could be in India, in US or in China, but he will bid the same rates i.e. the World market rates, and the buyer of their skills is not looking for cheap labor but rather skilled, quality labor.

I am strongly hoping to see the removal of labor rate discrepancy based on sheer geography during my lifetime. Why should an IT professional in India be paid 1/3rd or 1/2nd, or whatever? So long as he is as productive as his counterpart in Europe and America, he should be paid the same.

I see a lot of wrong in the labor arbitrage going on in the World today. It is unfair and unjust, and is certainly not true capitalism. A capitalist society offers the same opportunity regardless of geography, on the basis of productivity. It is unfair for a business to assume that a worker in India is less productive than a worker in the US simply because India is a developing country. I see everything wrong with this assumption. I have returned from the US, and had taken a transfer on my current US job. I will be doing the same things, would be measured on the same performance metric as my American colleagues would be, and yet, I would have to take a pay cut simply because I am in India. It is sheer anti-capitalism!

What do others think? I think I should post a main thread to discuss this.

Regards,
R2I4C.[/quote]

I don't see any anti-capitalism here at all, but if you insist that there is anti-capitalism, then it may be in the wages that are getting paid in US and other developed countries for work that can be done at a much lower cost from other geographies. Think of it as US employees and others getting an "incentive" just for living in such developed economies. Think of it as HRA and other allowances being higher in metro cities than tier-3 cities in India too.

The removal of labor arbitrage that you are suggesting will NOT bring increased salaries to people working from low-cost geographies. What it will do, (if it ever happens) is to bring down the wages in the developed economies. You have already seen it with the salaries of basic programmers, testers, system admins, call center agents etc.

I certainly share your pain because now you have to take a pay-cut (compared to your US salary) but turn-in the same productivity. But instead of seeing it as a penalizing activity, view it as if you got paid an "excess amout" all these years for doing your job from US. Now that you have returned to India, you are going to get paid what should normally be the going rate for your job (irrespective of your geography).

If you still insist that you should get paid your US Salary, then you need to prove and convince your employer that you are not replacable by another available low cost resource in India to do your job.

The way the employers look at this is "What is my cost to have an alternate resource to r2i4c to do the same job at the same quality level in the same amount of time". As long as that alternate cost is lower than your current going rate, you are at risk, no matter where you are working from.

I was in the same boat as yours very recently. If you are working for a US employer from India, there is some room to convince them but if not, then you are to be paid whatever your "local" current market rate for your skills, talent and experience.

[csvirus]

There are others, too, such as guru.com, and odesk.com.

The problem with such online job outsourcing concepts, based on my initial research, is that the job posters expect to hire extremely cheap labor. It is not meant for sustainable livelihood - neither in the US, nor in a metro such as Bangalore, Shanghai, or what have you.

There is a market need here - run a Web based brokering operation to make buyers meet with sellers who are talented, professional, intelligent, and don't market cheap labor as their core competency. In other words, in such an online brokering operation, the professional could be in India, in US or in China, but he will bid the same rates i.e. the World market rates, and the buyer of their skills is not looking for cheap labor but rather skilled, quality labor.

I am strongly hoping to see the removal of labor rate discrepancy based on sheer geography during my lifetime. Why should an IT professional in India be paid 1/3rd or 1/2nd, or whatever? So long as he is as productive as his counterpart in Europe and America, he should be paid the same.

I see a lot of wrong in the labor arbitrage going on in the World today. It is unfair and unjust, and is certainly not true capitalism. A capitalist society offers the same opportunity regardless of geography, on the basis of productivity. It is unfair for a business to assume that a worker in India is less productive than a worker in the US simply because India is a developing country. I see everything wrong with this assumption. I have returned from the US, and had taken a transfer on my current US job. I will be doing the same things, would be measured on the same performance metric as my American colleagues would be, and yet, I would have to take a pay cut simply because I am in India. It is sheer anti-capitalism!

What do others think? I think I should post a main thread to discuss this.

Regards,
R2I4C.[/quote]

Amen brother. I think exactly the same way. But for some reason Indians seem to revel in asking for 1/3rd salary when they are in india and think it is some charity show they are attending. they forget that they are using the same skills to be productive at the same level. Why should I go to the US and get paid in India ? If I ask that question, I would be the one shown the door. Why should I get paid $40/day when I am posted in the US, while my counterparts get paid much more there ? I simply walked out and refused to work. Thats it. They can go and hire cheap labour. Thats how capitalism works. Why would you pay $500 for a well branded shoe, when you can get it for Rs.100 at Bata ? Same thing. Its the supply of cheap labour. Thats it. There are people who are willing to undercut you by a very large margin and are willing to subsist on basic things. So there lies your answer. When abroad I was asked to pile up with comrades in a single room, doesn't matter who I am. There are crores who are willing to do it, so who wants you anyway ?

[r2i4c]

Vizagdesi,

Thank you for your comments.

I agree with you that it is the wages in the developed countries that are most likely to go down in the future. In any case, my point is - this difference in wages based just on geography should ideally disappear and wages should depend more on the productivity of an employee.

In my specific case, the transfer was initiated by me. My employer was quite happy to have me in the US (i.e. my job was not off-shored by the employer). My manager's point is that he will be forced to cut my wages because the Indian HR of my company would not allow me to work at the US wages. Given that my reason to take this transfer is highly personal, I agreed to it. And, honest truth is that I will be happy getting whatever I get. So long as I get paid enough to pay my bills, and so long as I don't hate my work, I am okay.

However, I just wanted to make a note of my observation and hear others' views on the same. I like discussing economics among other things...

Regards,
R2I4C.

[vizagdesi]

Vizagdesi,

Thank you for your comments.

I agree with you that it is the wages in the developed countries that are most likely to go down in the future. In any case, my point is - this difference in wages based just on geography should ideally disappear and wages should depend more on the productivity of an employee.

In my specific case, the transfer was initiated by me. My employer was quite happy to have me in the US (i.e. my job was not off-shored by the employer). My manager's point is that he will be forced to cut my wages because the Indian HR of my company would not allow me to work at the US wages. Given that my reason to take this transfer is highly personal, I agreed to it. And, honest truth is that I will be happy getting whatever I get. So long as I get paid enough to pay my bills, and so long as I don't hate my work, I am okay.

However, I just wanted to make a note of my observation and hear others' views on the same. I like discussing economics among other things...

Regards,
R2I4C.[/quote]

I am in exactly the same boat. I initiated the R2I with my employer (large Fortune 20 non-IT company). They were skeptical if this works at all or not. I had to convince them and even after that, they agreed to do it only for one quarter on an experimental basis with no promises to extend the relationship. It worked for us and they were happy to keep me on the US payroll. Then US HR stepped in and showed us both why that kind of arrangement (Employee in India but on US payroll) cannot work legally. So, now we are in the midst of how to continue the work without being on the US payroll. My employer has India operations but I did not want to be part of it (or on their payroll either) because I only deal with my US office.

I tried to defend my current compensation by showing them my opportunity cost versus their cost to hire an alternative resource in US. My middle management agrees to it conceptually but it would not fly with the senior management. So, we are working out a deal where my compensation would not go down but I offered to have an additional resource to help us out. US employer still saves money because they no longer have to pay the benefits and associated employer taxes. I win because, just like in your case, I prefer to work with my US employer than to find work locally.

I used DataQuest Annual Salary Survey to show what I could earn if I choose to work for a local employer (this is what I called as my opportunity cost). I then showed them how much it would cost for them if they have to replace me in the US (this is their "cost of alternative resource"). The difference is what they would save by keeping me and I too would not have any lost opportunity cost. Hope your employer is also reasonable with you.

[sv117]

Lots of these issus would vanish in the 20 years as the population goes down ( health reason, pollution, not wanting & no time to have kids) -