Are you tired of our NRIs criticizing India at every chance they get? They try to find negative in every achievement or any development in India and they keep quiet about all the nonsense happens in US.
If you felt the same any time, then post your experiences here.
Latest ones being,
Tata's Nano: Criticizing about the car, traffic conditions in India, suitability and pollution.
Do the same criticize about Hummers on the roads? Do they buy hybrid cars or use public transportation?
Mukesh Ambani being richest in the world on one day: Criticizing on how much he donated for charities and comparing with Bill Gates and others?
First of all charity is someone's personal interest. Warren Buffet donated more than 80% of his money in 2006, when he was 76yrs old. Everyone has their way and they do it when they wish.
Why can't we be just proud of the moment when Mukesh Ambani became richest? Did anyone criticize Warren Buffet for not donating until 2006?
Be proud to be Desi
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gulfIndian
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:44 am
Be proud to be Desi
Being an NRI in the Middle East, I have noticed a strange trait among Indians here. Almost all of them are ready to find fault every small thing that goes wrong or perceived to be bad in India and make a strong protest during public discussions, media and the press through letters to the editor etc. It only enables the other nationalities living here especially the jealous neighbors get more ammunition for their sarcasm and criticism.
I have grown tired of advising our fellow countrymen to refrain from this behavior using many channels. But it has had no effect and I have come to the conclusion that self criticism is in our blood and culture. If ever there is a competition for self criticism, we Indians will win the world championship hands down!
I have grown tired of advising our fellow countrymen to refrain from this behavior using many channels. But it has had no effect and I have come to the conclusion that self criticism is in our blood and culture. If ever there is a competition for self criticism, we Indians will win the world championship hands down!
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Chicago Desi
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:24 am
Be proud to be Desi
I am not sure of this "proud" business. Unless we have somehow contributed to the success of Mr. Tata or Mr. Ambani or Mr. Vikram Pandit, I don't see why their achievements makes us proud as Indians. I think media tends to hype these things a bit too much and we get engulfed into it. Also, where does this "proud" business begin and end? We all have many affiliations in our lives and I guess you can proud about something or the other of each of those affiliations, whether we contribute anything to those affiliations or not.
I have met people of many nationalities and cultures and all of them are proud of their "rich culture and heritage". In general, we always have a sense of pride about who we are and where we came from, irrespective of our nationality and culture.
Unnecessary criticism also is not healthy. I think it affects the critic more than others since it leaves a sense of bitterness when one criticizes. It should not affect us in any way, since we really cannot control what other people do, regardless of their nationality, culture and heritage.
I have met people of many nationalities and cultures and all of them are proud of their "rich culture and heritage". In general, we always have a sense of pride about who we are and where we came from, irrespective of our nationality and culture.
Unnecessary criticism also is not healthy. I think it affects the critic more than others since it leaves a sense of bitterness when one criticizes. It should not affect us in any way, since we really cannot control what other people do, regardless of their nationality, culture and heritage.
Be proud to be Desi
I would say criticizing is the key to success but it all depends if it is a healthy criticim or just as negativity. I totally understand OP's intends and yes I can list tones of these of brainy Desis. I am going to list one here for now.
On fine evening in the Desi Holiday party at friends home. Desi team after couple of drinks was debating betterment of India. The topics were
During that time India had developed world's 4th fastest supercomputer http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7092339.stm and nobody seems interested in that. Few of us started the topic but were bashed by negativity.
I guess it is the choice of being negative to make more constructive or be positive and remain constructive, boils down to the attitude.
On fine evening in the Desi Holiday party at friends home. Desi team after couple of drinks was debating betterment of India. The topics were
How the country liquor in India is made and duplicate alcohol is sold.
How the chemical milk was produced
corrupt cops and unethical politicians
During that time India had developed world's 4th fastest supercomputer http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7092339.stm and nobody seems interested in that. Few of us started the topic but were bashed by negativity.
I guess it is the choice of being negative to make more constructive or be positive and remain constructive, boils down to the attitude.
Be proud to be Desi
Taking pride in certain activities of fellow Indians may help in self esteem.
Criticizing certain shortcomings may make some listening to such criticisms squirm and they would that we rather talk about things to be proud about.
If those discussing can effect any change, howsoever small, then they need to have a clear understanding of the shortcomings and what change and where it needs to be implemented. This comes only from discussion of short comings and not being blind to it. Any squirming and discomfort at such discussions is not necessary and such insecurities should be cast aside.
A discussion on negatives is healthy as one is willing to look at negatives for positive purposes, whereas it is separate from bashing which is unhealthy.
A plain factual discussion of negatives without any express or implied intent to implement change or correct is not necessarily bashing. Bashing is with a clear intent to denigrate.
Now to specifics:
[QUOTE]Tata's Nano: Criticizing about the car, traffic conditions in India, suitability and pollution.
Do the same criticize about Hummers on the roads? Do they buy hybrid cars or use public transportation?
I think if the topic in the news is Nano, then people discuss current topics and if some feel that this will add significantly to pollution, then I do not see that as bashing. Why is anyone feeling insecure to discuss pros and cons if Nano is a current topic. One does not need to discuss pollution by coal plants first just to feel righteous to discuss this. One does not need to drive a hybrid to discuss the effects of pollution. If all the people who do not drive a hybrid stop discussing the effects, then one loses out on significant input that these people can provide. It is like burying one's head in sand because discussing shortcomings and problems is making some squirm.
[QUOTE]Mukesh Ambani being richest in the world on one day: Criticizing on how much he donated for charities and comparing with Bill Gates and others?
First of all charity is someone's personal interest. Warren Buffet donated more than 80% of his money in 2006, when he was 76yrs old. Everyone has their way and they do it when they wish.
I agree, that is his personal choice, whether he contributes to charity, how much, when and whether publically or anonymously. However, I also think that Mukesh Ambani is a public figure and people will discuss such things and if they do, why should anyone feel slighted? Where is the discomfort coming from? Do we feel so connected to him because he is an Indian that we take such negative comments personally? Therein may lie the problem. We should be able to openly discuss good and bad points and discard those opinions we do not agree with.
[QUOTE]Why can't we be just proud of the moment when Mukesh Ambani became richest? Did anyone criticize Warren Buffet for not donating until 2006? I am sure that Warren has been criticized in different ways for different actions, but that is immaterial to criticism of Ambani. If someone chooses to comment that Ambani should take on some very visible large charitable actions to uplift poor in India then that is fine. Why do we have to be just proud only? Why do we have to be so insecure that we do not want to discuss negatives? Why are we worried about what others think? Is not the purpose of discussing negatives to get a better understanding of the root problem, solution, action etc regardless of what others think?
Als said and done, I will agree that if there is plain bashing, it does no one any good other then perhaps being cathartic for some.
Criticizing certain shortcomings may make some listening to such criticisms squirm and they would that we rather talk about things to be proud about.
If those discussing can effect any change, howsoever small, then they need to have a clear understanding of the shortcomings and what change and where it needs to be implemented. This comes only from discussion of short comings and not being blind to it. Any squirming and discomfort at such discussions is not necessary and such insecurities should be cast aside.
A discussion on negatives is healthy as one is willing to look at negatives for positive purposes, whereas it is separate from bashing which is unhealthy.
A plain factual discussion of negatives without any express or implied intent to implement change or correct is not necessarily bashing. Bashing is with a clear intent to denigrate.
Now to specifics:
[QUOTE]Tata's Nano: Criticizing about the car, traffic conditions in India, suitability and pollution.
Do the same criticize about Hummers on the roads? Do they buy hybrid cars or use public transportation?
I think if the topic in the news is Nano, then people discuss current topics and if some feel that this will add significantly to pollution, then I do not see that as bashing. Why is anyone feeling insecure to discuss pros and cons if Nano is a current topic. One does not need to discuss pollution by coal plants first just to feel righteous to discuss this. One does not need to drive a hybrid to discuss the effects of pollution. If all the people who do not drive a hybrid stop discussing the effects, then one loses out on significant input that these people can provide. It is like burying one's head in sand because discussing shortcomings and problems is making some squirm.
[QUOTE]Mukesh Ambani being richest in the world on one day: Criticizing on how much he donated for charities and comparing with Bill Gates and others?
First of all charity is someone's personal interest. Warren Buffet donated more than 80% of his money in 2006, when he was 76yrs old. Everyone has their way and they do it when they wish.
I agree, that is his personal choice, whether he contributes to charity, how much, when and whether publically or anonymously. However, I also think that Mukesh Ambani is a public figure and people will discuss such things and if they do, why should anyone feel slighted? Where is the discomfort coming from? Do we feel so connected to him because he is an Indian that we take such negative comments personally? Therein may lie the problem. We should be able to openly discuss good and bad points and discard those opinions we do not agree with.
[QUOTE]Why can't we be just proud of the moment when Mukesh Ambani became richest? Did anyone criticize Warren Buffet for not donating until 2006? I am sure that Warren has been criticized in different ways for different actions, but that is immaterial to criticism of Ambani. If someone chooses to comment that Ambani should take on some very visible large charitable actions to uplift poor in India then that is fine. Why do we have to be just proud only? Why do we have to be so insecure that we do not want to discuss negatives? Why are we worried about what others think? Is not the purpose of discussing negatives to get a better understanding of the root problem, solution, action etc regardless of what others think?
Als said and done, I will agree that if there is plain bashing, it does no one any good other then perhaps being cathartic for some.
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Chicago Desi
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:24 am
Be proud to be Desi
Desi,
Wonderful post. Thank you!
Wonderful post. Thank you!
Desi;71976Taking pride in certain activities of fellow Indians may help in self esteem.
Criticizing certain shortcomings may make some listening to such criticisms squirm and they would that we rather talk about things to be proud about.
If those discussing can effect any change, howsoever small, then they need to have a clear understanding of the shortcomings and what change and where it needs to be implemented. This comes only from discussion of short comings and not being blind to it. Any squirming and discomfort at such discussions is not necessary and such insecurities should be cast aside.
A discussion on negatives is healthy as one is willing to look at negatives for positive purposes, whereas it is separate from bashing which is unhealthy.
A plain factual discussion of negatives without any express or implied intent to implement change or correct is not necessarily bashing. Bashing is with a clear intent to denigrate.
Now to specifics:
I think if the topic in the news is Nano, then people discuss current topics and if some feel that this will add significantly to pollution, then I do not see that as bashing. Why is anyone feeling insecure to discuss pros and cons if Nano is a current topic. One does not need to discuss pollution by coal plants first just to feel righteous to discuss this. One does not need to drive a hybrid to discuss the effects of pollution. If all the people who do not drive a hybrid stop discussing the effects, then one loses out on significant input that these people can provide. It is like burying one's head in sand because discussing shortcomings and problems is making some squirm.
I agree, that is his personal choice, whether he contributes to charity, how much, when and whether publically or anonymously. However, I also think that Mukesh Ambani is a public figure and people will discuss such things and if they do, why should anyone feel slighted? Where is the discomfort coming from? Do we feel so connected to him because he is an Indian that we take such negative comments personally? Therein may lie the problem. We should be able to openly discuss good and bad points and discard those opinions we do not agree with.
I am sure that Warren has been criticized in different ways for different actions, but that is immaterial to criticism of Ambani. If someone chooses to comment that Ambani should take on some very visible large charitable actions to uplift poor in India then that is fine. Why do we have to be just proud only? Why do we have to be so insecure that we do not want to discuss negatives? Why are we worried about what others think? Is not the purpose of discussing negatives to get a better understanding of the root problem, solution, action etc regardless of what others think?
Als said and done, I will agree that if there is plain bashing, it does no one any good other then perhaps being cathartic for some.
Be proud to be Desi
A typical Islamic society is the best example of what a self-obsessed society can achieve. The sense of ?quality? is also very personal judgment. What is great for one person may not be that great to others. It depends on what we personally want to achieve and expect; and on that basis we praise or criticize.
E.g coming to USA may be a great achievement for many but others will not be that ?proud? by simply coming to US. They continue to criticize themselves till they do/achieve what they like (in their profession or long term dream).
We will easily find many people criticizing their societies and nations even among the ?most successful" (as we think them) states/societies. That?s one of the reasons how a society or a nation progresses.
I am proud to be an "Indian" but not so for many "desi" or many aspects of my nation, as I see it (which many others may find perfectly fine).
E.g coming to USA may be a great achievement for many but others will not be that ?proud? by simply coming to US. They continue to criticize themselves till they do/achieve what they like (in their profession or long term dream).
We will easily find many people criticizing their societies and nations even among the ?most successful" (as we think them) states/societies. That?s one of the reasons how a society or a nation progresses.
I am proud to be an "Indian" but not so for many "desi" or many aspects of my nation, as I see it (which many others may find perfectly fine).
Be proud to be Desi
Desi;71976Als said and done, I will agree that if there is plain bashing, it does no one any good other then perhaps being cathartic for some.
Desi summed it up very eloquently and touched many things point by point. I think we all should avoid plain bashing and and or plain gung-hoing. Yes, you can criticize and appreciate based on the points. It doesn't make us any smaller or bigger.
Be proud to be Desi
Desi;71976Als said and done, I will agree that if there is plain bashing, it does no one any good other then perhaps being cathartic for some.[/quote]
Yes, I agree. This is what exactly I am trying to say. The examples were only internet comments on the news. But in parties or get togethers, there is lot of negativity which I don't like. I appreciate if they have positive attitude towards India atleast once in a while. About Warren Buffet, I am sure no one has ever heard desis passing negative comments.
Tata's 4th fastest super computer in the world is a typical example. How many desis appreciated or discussed about it. They would still say, India can never be the best and so on.
Be proud to be Desi
mm2008R2I;71999Yes, I agree. This is what exactly I am trying to say. The examples were only internet comments on the news. But in parties or get togethers, there is lot of negativity which I don't like. I appreciate if they have positive attitude towards India atleast once in a while. About Warren Buffet, I am sure no one has ever heard desis passing negative comments.
Tata's 4th fastest super computer in the world is a typical example. How many desis appreciated or discussed about it. They would still say, India can never be the best and so on.[/quote]
I can follow what you like to say. Here I like to mention that one need not to criticize Warren Buffet to balance his criticism against any Indian entrepreneur like Ambanis to balance his act. We also should remember that:
1. Criticizing one particular aspect of a person or a society or a nation is not total rejection or thrashing that particular entity. We still do accept the good aspects of that.
2. One does not need to be an industrialist himself or donate a huge amount to criticize Ambanis for their corruption or very low philanthropy. One does not need to be a scientist himself to criticize very low output of Indian science and scientists.
In fact, lack of public criticism and action are one of the main reasons for the backwardness of India today. We need to oppose whenever a person say something we do not agree with (be it about India or Indian or anything else that matters to us). This is also very much lacking among Indians (as a whole). Many of us criticize only when it conforms majority, but prefer to remain silent when majority seem not to toe to that line (this is particularly important in social gatherings).
In short, we prefer to play safe, be it criticizing or praising India or anything else.