Thoughts on immigrant\'s assimilation

[BeeAndButterfly]

Your primary rationale seems to be that parents (desi or otherwise) should do whatever it takes to help kids assimilate in the host culture even if that entails doing things that do not make sense. Let the prevelant culture dictate upbringing.

I personally think the argument is flawed because:
1. You are assuming that American parents know better than Indian parents and hence Indian parents should follow their cues and style of parenting
2. You are assuming that mass consumerism (predatory capitalism) as practised commonly in the US is fine and it is ok for us to give into it. So we are sending a message to our kids that it is ok to overspend for the label which may not be justified in the quality of the item.


I do not see any reason why a 12 year old needs to start wearing makeup at 12, or fall for each tween whim out there just to fit in. I do not see why a teenager needs to date and get emotionally caught up in the resulting roller-coaster at a time when they should focus on honing their skills and talents for the years ahead. I think there is a fundamental difference in values and priorities based on our own experience and that shows up in our parenting styles and preferences.

Btw, 40% of kids in the US do not live with both their biological parents. I would be quite skeptical about taking parenting cues from a culture that has such alarming statistics.

[back2desh]

Your primary rationale seems to be that parents (desi or otherwise) should do whatever it takes to help kids assimilate in the host culture even if that entails doing things that do not make sense. Let the prevelant culture dictate upbringing.

I personally think the argument is flawed because:
1. You are assuming that American parents know better than Indian parents and hence Indian parents should follow their cues and style of parenting
2. You are assuming that mass consumerism (predatory capitalism) as practised commonly in the US is fine and it is ok for us to give into it. So we are sending a message to our kids that it is ok to overspend for the label which may not be justified in the quality of the item.


I do not see any reason why a 12 year old needs to start wearing makeup at 12, or fall for each tween whim out there just to fit in. I do not see why a teenager needs to date and get emotionally caught up in the resulting roller-coaster at a time when they should focus on honing their skills and talents for the years ahead. I think there is a fundamental difference in values and priorities based on our own experience and that shows up in our parenting styles and preferences.

Btw, 40% of kids in the US do not live with both their biological parents. I would be quite skeptical about taking parenting cues from a culture that has such alarming statistics.

Very well said....

[mom2gurls]

First of all let me be VERY clear on something. I didnt start this thread/Move this thread whatever. This was a response to an on going discussion and someone decided to take my post and turn it into a "Musing of recent immigrants choices". I never called it a musing and I certainly wouldnt be Amused by anyones choice on how to live their life and what not.

The background of the thread (from what I remember)..was about challenges that are faced when coming to the USA. I offered some idea from a ABD (American Born Desi) POV and the jist of my comments were that if you try and mingle where you are at, trust your kids a little, guide them properly and try and learn some of the things where you are...chances are you will be OKAY.

You cannot raise a child in the USA, the way YOU were raised in India some time ago. From reading the hundred of posts on this forum....I have heard the same comments made about those that R2I and they say that "that india doesnt exist anymore". The reason they are moving back is for the kids.

The poster that made the comment about the 40% of kids in the us dont live with there biological parents and not taking parenting cues from the culture.

For every one person that goes back to India, I am sure that there is one person standing in line to come to the USA. Dont bite the hand that feeds you. Its that attitude that will cause you remain isolated here and not mingle with ALL the cultures around the world.

BTW, we ourselves are planning to go to BLR and we had the option NOT to and STILL DO. But we think it would be wonderful chance to go see india and see the areas in india and vacation at some of the places that wouldnt normally cross our mind (taking a trip to singapore, seeing the great wall of china). These things are just closer.

Plus its a wonderful way to reconnect and see family more that we have growing up here. I am trying to find out as much as I can about the current culture and customs so I can fit in an assimiliate and make things as transparant.

As a mother dont you think that I have the same fears that you may have had coming here? How are the kids going to adjust, will they make friends, will we make friends? I have to learn THE METRIC system LOL. Whats the correct protocol on customs? What about the pollution, the dust, the poverty, how do I explain that.

See as parents we all have concerns about something...it doesnt matter what country you are going to, or what country you are coming from...but I stand firmly by my belief that one should at least TRY TO BLEND IN with the aspects of where they are staying...at least the parts that you feel comfortable with.

I would request that since I didnt give any sort of permission for my post on some other discussion to be used a blog, article or whatever...that it be deleted. thx

[boca]

First of all let me be VERY clear on something. I didnt start this thread/Move this thread whatever. This was a response to an on going discussion and someone decided to take my post and turn it into a "Musing of recent immigrants choices". I never called it a musing and I certainly wouldnt be Amused by anyones choice on how to live their life and what not.

Thanks for your clarification. It wasn't appropriate to start a thread from a post, without the context.

I would request that since I didnt give any sort of permission for my post on some other discussion to be used a blog, article or whatever...that it be deleted. thx

I request that this thread be. It is a unique point of view that you bring to this forum. I am all ears. :) Don't get side tracked by detractors. Please do reconsider. Thanks

[Sarkar07]

Mom2gurls,

I second Boca. Your views are interesting and give a different - and important- perspective. I like your style of posting - no unnecessary bashing of Indians like we see in some threads here but at the same time you have a nice way of presenting your thoughts in a clear, honest manner. Please do keep posting your views.

As for the reactions your posts have received, as a parent yourself, I am sure you realize that people get defensive when told by someone else that they may not be doing the right thing with their kids. You say "but I stand firmly by my belief that one should at least TRY TO BLEND IN with the aspects of where they are staying...at least the parts that you feel comfortable with." The important part is the one that I highlighted. Indian parents may not feel comfortable with some American customs/culture and try to shield their kids from them. It is similar to how you would probably shield your kids from some Indian culture/custom things that you are not comfortable with when you go to Bangalore. Indian parents in the US also try as hard to assimilate for the sake of their kids as any other parent.

[mom2gurls]

If there is some benefit thats fine. I was just a little taken back to find a post from a thread made into a article, and that too with some catchy title...starting with the phrase "I cannot comment on the indian school system"....that in of itself was starting point for some sort of disaster..and then there were comments made after that which were suggestive and uncomfortable in nature (at least to me).

If someone wants to quote someone in threads, that is fine. But to take sections of posts from threads and twist it, without permission it not right.

If you want to keep it fine, but just know that I didnt promote myself, this section was taken without my knowledge, turns into an article and slapped with some sort of title. The original thread discussed assimiliation issues...NOT "Lets bash the FOBS". Totally not my intent and totally NOT cool.

thx.

[roxstar]

Assimilation! Is that what you are trying to convey below. If so, I think you make a decent effort at doing so. I 100% agree with your assessment of the Indian school system and its myopic focus on academics.

Assimilation is most key if immigrants want to survive and thrive in the US. I also agree that a section of the desi immigrant population and a large one to boot does a poor job of assimilating. The natural inclination for immigrants is to blend with their own kind. Some do this by blending with fellow indians, some expand scope and include fellow immigrants from other countries and then there are some who restrict themselves to their own sub-ethnic groups. I think it is due to a matter of comfort. Leaving your homeland and migrating to a new land is no walk in the park. I go back to my days in grad school when I saw how desis bunched up just as people from europe or latin america. The ones who assimilated quickly were people from english speaking countries typcially England or Australia. Plus everyone has a sense of belongingness and if they find comfort with people of their own kind with similar experiences, they should not be blamed.

Also not sure everyone is programmed financially and socially to hit the ground running in terms of assimilation. Buying a home in a good (white) school district takes a much bigger financial effort than buying a home elsewhere and people landing fresh from India typically dont have the resources to afford such homes. It takes time that is just the practical reality. Also it is a matter of priorities, the priority at the time is landing on your feet, putting your life together versus thinking about basketball and baseball. If you have not noticed most desis once here for 10+ years do move into such neighborhoods and actually in areas like the SF bay area, their numbers in such neighborhoods are swelling every year.

Anyways, I like what you are trying to convey. Not sure I like how you are trying to convey that. Do I share your view that the indian approach to academics is narrow....yes, do desis do a poor job of assimilating....yes. Is playing basketball/baseball or wearing jeans going to solve it - No.....Do I think assimilating is easy....no but can be done with good effort and an open mind. Can the desi population do a better job of presenting themselves as more cosmopolitan-- yes.

I cannot comment on the indian school system as I have no knowledge...(unless you call my parents and listening to every other auntie and uncle back in the 70/80's, criticizing the american school system...i.e." Back in india we learned physics in preschool and calculus in-utero". Okay maybe I am exageratting...but for all of us here who ABD (no "C" needed, most of us are not confused..contrary to popular belief)..it was sheer turmoil to deal with homework checking by our parents.

THAT being said..the best thing that my parents, my desi friends parents did was assimilate and mix with non desis.

When they immigrated here..they didnt flock to the the apartments where all the desi's lived...moved in the same schools where all the desis were..buy their home within walking distance from the place of worship. My parents social circle did the opposite..they picked the best schools that were highly ranked and bought homes there, my mom and other aunties ditched the salwar suits and wore jeans/pants and dresses when they did american things and reserved indian clothing for indian events. NO it wasnt because they were embarrassed about being indian, it wasnt because they had a chip on their shoulder to remind everyone "Hey I am indian". It was more so to make sure WE KIDS never felt different or out of place.

They did it for US.
My father got involved with baseball, boxing and little league. My mom was room mom, who shuffled me to girl scouts, was in the PTA and baked cup cakes for bake sales. When we stepped outside of the home to face the day...we were indo-american...but inside the home..the traditional values of our background were very instilled.

While they complained about the US schools being "too easy"...they were right on point when it came to addressing certain social issues. They didnt give up on being indian...they embraced being american. That was so key for us. I never felt (and to this day) dont feel I was ever discriminated against in school or work. I never was made to feel "different". I never heard my parents complain that "they didnt get the promotion because they were indian". We did everything from gymnastics to cheerleading including pooja at the temple and seva at the gurudwara"

The point I am trying to make is that school is just more than academics. You cannot compare the the indian school system to US schools ( in my opinion). They are two different animals. I dont get a sense that the Indian school system is about the "all around individual. Being strong in math and science yes..but being well rounded (A term most college admissions counselors look for in the US universites..the "well rounded individual")

I think for the more recent immigrants raising their children here, you should make sure you allow your children to do the "american things". Dont get your child tested because you like every other asian parent thinks their child is "gifted". If your child is gifted, a professional will tell you. Please dont send your child to school with indian food (yes I know a few)...they are going to be made fun of at the lunch table. Please listen to your kids about what the cool clothes are and the cool shops to purchase them at..if you cannot afford to shop at abercrombie...look for a sale and load up. Your kids will thank you. If they are good academically in school and dont want to be in chess club or tennis...let them take ballet or karate.

There is no advantage to a child skipping a grade or two.....when they are 45 years old, married with kids....is anyone going to really care? You dont need to force your child in Kumon at the age of 1 1/2....they are fine playing at the water and sand table. Dont be irritated that your child has more american friends than indian....(they arent going to corrupt or convert him/her to being american). Children will learn the values,morals,traditionals, and heritage from their parents..who should lead by example.

I am not saying this because I dont believe in challenging (note I didnt say pushing) kids. I do..kids need challenge, guidance and counsel.

Its def "survival of the fittest" out in the real world...but every child deserves to smell the roses too.

[mom2gurls]

Mom2gurls,

I second Boca. Your views are interesting and give a different - and important- perspective. I like your style of posting - no unnecessary bashing of Indians like we see in some threads here but at the same time you have a nice way of presenting your thoughts in a clear, honest manner. Please do keep posting your views.

As for the reactions your posts have received, as a parent yourself, I am sure you realize that people get defensive when told by someone else that they may not be doing the right thing with their kids. You say "but I stand firmly by my belief that one should at least TRY TO BLEND IN with the aspects of where they are staying...at least the parts that you feel comfortable with." The important part is the one that I highlighted. Indian parents may not feel comfortable with some American customs/culture and try to shield their kids from them. It is similar to how you would probably shield your kids from some Indian culture/custom things that you are not comfortable with when you go to Bangalore. Indian parents in the US also try as hard to assimilate for the sake of their kids as any other parent.

Totally agree, there is going to be so much that I am going to have to learn and adjust to.

[Admin1]

mom2gurls,

Your post was moved from another thread by one of the admins and this is routinely done to start new discussions and to avoid hijacking of the main intent of the discussion of the original thread and your thread is not an exception.

If you have problem with the thread title, suggest here the change and it will be changed.

Nuisance of the public forum is, one cannot expect just the accolades and there will be contrary opinions. If they do not violate Code of the Conduct of this forum , admins do not take any action.

Added later:
Since admin didn't hear any suggestion, the thread title is changed by admin to indicate the discussion flow.

[BeeAndButterfly]

Hi, I do see the well-intentioned rationale behind your thrust to assimilate. My observations are that in general, peoples lifestyle in the US are dictated by the media. What they wear, how they decorate, priorities in life...it is based on cues they get from media. The media in turn is controlled by the groups that have the resources to push their message to consume infinitely. It is extraordinarily amazing how gullible people are. You can see the result of this iin the debt of the average American household and of course one of the reasons for the sub-prime crisis. I do understand your concerns about raising your kid in BLR, and I am not sure that BLR schools are a good representative of Indian schools though the curriculum might be the same. My guess would be that depending on the school you could approximate a US open style of teaching. That would go for other factors also. There is a strata that is trying to take lifestyle cues from Ms. Bushnell. Time will tell whether they wisen up. Good luck.