Evolution of God

[boca]

[gujju]

Noo. It was just a flippant remark more in referencing to the OSHO guys saffron robes. Of course not, he is not a member of any of those. This was just a jocular remark.

Desi and Boca,

I really like to know whether you pray?

If not, then how do you handle moments of intense weakness and/or despair?

Your answer will help me a lot.

Thanks

[boca]

Desi and Boca,

I really like to know whether you pray?

If not, then how do you handle moments of intense weakness and/or despair?[/quote]
If pray means "Wish or hope strongly for a particular outcome or situation", I do that (rarely) without the need for linking it to some deity.

To be thankful to someone, I pray. In that instance, it is an "expression of thanks". Again, there is no need for linking it to some deity.

Handling moments of intense weakness and/or despair? Probably think through how and why that moment came about, what rational steps one could take to mitigate to the best of the ability, etc...

Thankfully, I have never had to face extreme dependence on hope that its absence caused despair. I am careful with what I hope for. :)

[Rajram]

Sorry pun intended but offense not meant :)

There are few ways praying can be done without a deity or belief in God:

1. Hold your hands together, close your eyes and repeat Newton's laws of motion for a few times.

2. Close your eyes and think about your problems and think about the laws of thermodynamics and rest assured that your problems won't stay with you and will eventually get distributed across the cosmos and reach an equilibrium and will become everybody else's problems one day or the other.

3. Imagine the Andromeda galaxy, think of how fast it is moving towards us with it's own set of problems and eventually all the problems are going to vaporize when we get sucked into it's black hole.

4. if nothing else works repeat "E equals m c square" several times while you are imagining you are traveling away from earth at near speed of light and when you return back after a minute, it will be 100000+ years already and the whole earth will be for you to keep. :)

[layman]

Interesting turn to this thread!

In another instance I had mentioned that fear of god and life after death (fear of consequence) plays a role in shaping the behavior of humans. When people get older they start to think about what happens next. One example is a member's post today in an unrelated thread as follows

After all only these noble deeds come with us when we leave this world - nothing else matters.
Whatever wealth we accumulate will stay behind..

I do my work well because my future rewards from my boss depends on my past/current performance. There is a continuity to my deeds. If future reward has no consequence on my current performance (if there is no continuity) I will not perform.
Similarly man wants to believe that his deeds are to be rewarded/punished in the future. Without this continuity won't life become chaotic? For example when man becomes old why should he do anything for his kids or posterity. Shouldn't he blow up all he has and die? What does he gain by doing good to his kids and humans left in the planet? He is gone after all... Similarly, when kids grow up shouldn't they throw away their parents? What use are old parents to them? What do they gain by treating old folks who are going to die anyway?

Shouldn't there be a notion of future consequences for guiding human behavior?

[Desi]

Desi and Boca,

I really like to know whether you pray?

If not, then how do you handle moments of intense weakness and/or despair?

Your answer will help me a lot.

Thanks

No sir, I do not pray. My wife goes to Devi Jagrans and I will gladly enjoy a steak that day if I feel like.
No prayers, none. Many a times, various friends and relatives have functions at temples and I generally avoid them. If it is someone's death chautha at the temple, I go to pay respects to the departed. No, I never fold hands in front of deities or kneel etc. I have however, covered my head in a Gurudwara as that is their requirement to be there. No, I did not go to Gurudwara to pray. I do however visit ancient temples in India as I like to see ancient architecture, and the art.

As to handling moments of despair, I once had gotten an MMPI evaluation done and was told by the person reading the results that observers would not be able to tell if I was in a severe crisis or tremendously happy and that my external behavior would be very similar. I once had a $60K losing swing in a single hand of blackjack and the dealer told me that most other people would be screaming and banging the table. Since then I have gotten better.

No, if I am in a situation that makes me despondent, I try to look at objectively as what can I do to fix and if I cannot fix, how do I handle, manage and try to make that a learning situation to learn for the future.

I saw the other thread that the above posts triggered first and responded there and then I saw this thread.

[layman]

If it is someone's death chautha at the temple, I go to pay respects to the departed.

What do you mean by "departed" here? What departed? What are you paying respect for? Isn't that a dead body you are paying respect? Does it know that you are paying respect?

[dixit]

I know its contradictory....but I have trouble..huge trouble accepting the existence of God, still I pray.

I have trouble accepting the existence because I fail to understand how can an almighty and all benevolent God make a human being suffer. How can he let a 2 months old innocent child suffer??? Which He Himself sent to this earth? What kind of sick game is it where He gives this ultimate gift and watches silently while the child is suffering?

I pray because I fear....because my family fears....because I feel if I don't pray, if I don't beg, if I don't somehow make this Supereme Being happy, I will get more sufferings.

[realgoogler]

I do my work well because my future rewards from my boss depends on my past/current performance. There is a continuity to my deeds. If future reward has no consequence on my current performance (if there is no continuity) I will not perform.
Similarly man wants to believe that his deeds are to be rewarded/punished in the future. Without this continuity won't life become chaotic? For example when man becomes old why should he do anything for his kids or posterity. Shouldn't he blow up all he has and die? What does he gain by doing good to his kids and humans left in the planet? He is gone after all... Similarly, when kids grow up shouldn't they throw away their parents? What use are old parents to them? What do they gain by treating old folks who are going to die anyway?

Shouldn't there be a notion of future consequences for guiding human behavior?

Future notions, potential punishments, Fear of law all can make sure people behave within acceptable limits. But then thats not all. But there is conscience, guilt and emotions that are beyond your control, such as love, hate, regret.
for example, you save for your kids or take insurance because you love your dear ones and wish them well. You could get depressed or frustrated at the thought of leaving your children in street after your death. Love for your dear ones is a just blind reaction in you and does n't need fear of future consequence to act.

Do you think Birds or farms animals are having a chaotic life? If not, do you think they believe in unfounded future consequences ?

[layman]

for example, you save for your kids or take insurance because you love your dear ones and wish them well. You could get depressed or frustrated at the thought of leaving your children in street after your death. Love for your dear ones is a just blind reaction in you and does n't need fear of future consequence to act.

What is love? Why should one love dear ones ? Is love explained by physics or chemistry or any science?

Similarly, are conscience, guilt, emotions etc scientific phenomena?