Reforming Hinduism

[ramsam]

Hinduism and Judaism are among the oldest religions in the world, with some common denominators; but the qualities they have bred in their people are a study in contrast. When they perceive any threat, big or small, real or imagined to their religion or the Jewish State, the Israelis react with a ferocity that belies their small size as a nation. Hindus, on the other hand have to be among the most placid of people.
But no longer can we stand by and let things happen to us; times have changed, and sadly, our religion is not in step with today?s world, and unless we make some significant changes, Hinduism will decay and die a natural death. Should we let that happen?
Most Hindus will express dismay and sorrow at the state of our religion. Although it is a religion of profound thoughts, we are not able to communicate it well to our own as well as others.
Can we do something about this? I think that all of us who feel this pain and frustration about our religion should come together and do something about it. We need to launch a reformative movement of our religion. Like in Protestantism, lay people rather than religious Swamis and Acharyas should lead this movement.
I am suggesting the following as core elements of reforming Hinduism:

1 Key to the Reformation of Hinduism is the concept of congregation. Such a congregation will meet once a week perhaps on a Saturday or Sunday morning, with an invocation by a Preacher/Teacher and follow up with a sermon to last no more than an hour- there should be the thread of religion and its application to day to day issues.
2. The concept of a preacher is new to Hinduism- at the moment, the priest for the most part is more of a person of rote learning, more like a technician who has learned all the right prayers to chant for the right occasion. In contrast, the preacher/teacher has to have the ability to communicate, passionate, sincere, with some knowledge of our scriptures, but also cognizant of social issues- we may have to train such preachers.
3. While Hinduism is multi faceted, we need to agree and establish the core beliefs and fundamentals of Hinduism - create simple books, tapes and other communication tools to teach these ideas to Hindus. We need to know our religion.
4. The barrier of caste has had a stranglehold on Hinduism- we MUST break it. I am not sure we can eradicate castes immediately. We can certainly ensure that one?s caste is not a barrier to his or her participating in a common congregation. All participants must be fully accepted and respected.
5. Concept of conversion without proselytism. While Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj have vehicles available for conversion, we can adopt their practices for anybody who chooses to convert. We may need to come up with a process for conversion along lines of Judaism. All converts should be welcomed and made to feel a part of the congregation. Converts should be assisted in establishing themselves in our faith.
6. Protection of Dharma. This is what the reformation is all about. It is to ensure the protection, sustenance and continuity of the religion of our forefathers.
7. Social Service. Social services must be a big part of the movement. First we must serve all of our own people. Educating our children, providing social services wherever needed to take care of the needy should be our agenda.
8. Social decrees: Discussion and decrees on social issues such as abortion, gays rights, human rights, death penalty, divorce, widows, etc.
9. Our name, at least for the time being can be ?Hindus without Barriers?

If anything I have said strikes a chord with you, let us start this movement together.
We owe that much to our progeny. If you support such a movement, please send an email to [email][email protected][/email].

Ram Ramaswamy

[KirKS]

I am suggesting the following as core elements of reforming Hinduism: [/quote]

Welcome to the forum Mr.Ramaswamy! Hope you will enjoy your stay here and participate in full spirit.

My name is Kiran and I will be your self-appointed guide for the next few minutes :))
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With that brief, let me jump to your ideas. Excellent start I should say! Yes. Hinduism needs constant reform to not just thrive, but also to just survive.

1. Congregation is like Christianizing or Islamization of Hinduism. Do we really need it?

2. Preacher concept is not at all new. Just switch on Aastha or Sanskar channel in Hindi and you will find literally hundreds of preachers. They are labeled as gurus, babas, sants, acharyas, mahants, swamys to name a few.

3. Aarsha Vidya Gurukulam in Pennsylvania has a wonderful but small library of most of these. I used to visit it for years. Ramakrishna Maths in every major city in India has such material. The only difference is that they change from philosophy school to school. Advaita, Dwaita, Vishishtadwaita are a few to name.

4. Caste as a 'touch' or superior/inferior concept is pretty much broken. Any casteism of that sort is only limited to libraries of pseudo-intellectuals or confines of walls of real casteist people. What you and me can't possibly do in even 100 years is the dilution of caste as an identity concept in society. A Thakur, a Brahmin, A Gowda, A Mudaliar, A Patel, A Patil, A SenGupta, A Naidu, A Meena, A Nair etc. can't be wiped out even in 3 generations. They have become identity of India just like Smith, Baker, Fuller, Berger have become in US. Let them be around as a society needs identity. As long as superior/inferior and untouchablity are removed, caste would be toothless. Every country in the world has some form of sect/class/race based identity.

5. Conversion: Very interesting! I strongly believe Hinduism needs a concept of conversion or at least reconversion. It's like PIO card issued by Government of India. Anyone whose ancestor was a Hindu ever, should be allowed to get back with an ancilliary membership holding PHO (person of Hindu Origin) card :)

Only if we can figure out which 'caste' they would get back in :cry:

8. Social decrees: Sanatana Dharma had smritis or dharma shastras to take care of decrees for time immemorial. Yagnavalkya Smriti is what's applicable to Kali Yuga. However, we need a balance between what the constitution of the land (India, US etc.) says and what the religious decree says. It's not harmful to have religious decrees, but they can quickly morph into authoritarian 'fatva' kind of nonsense. So more thought is needed here.

9. Are you on Twitter by chance? Likeminded Hindus already have an informal group called 'Internet Hindus'. I am linked to dozens of them and they feed me with so much info, that sometimes my brain reaches a state close to exposion. However, they also involve politics. If you want to keep this purely from religious/spiritual angle, then 'Hindus without Barriers' is a good start.

Again, welcome and hope you participate here.
- Kiran

[MrLong]

Ram Ramaswamy,

What is all this religion, judaism, Hinduism? Why are we wasting all this time writing about variance in religions. Do we really need this diversity in religion?

Has these religions caused more harm (divided the society) or has it bettered the society. In the recent past, in the name of religion, there is a lot of unrest/violence that is shaking up countries and ecomies. I wish there was one single religion in this entire world!!! We will not have the convert discussion/agression against non-believers, and fights against each other in the name of religion.


-M

If you want to roast me up for this question, I invite Desi to defend me. I am a big fan of Diamond tooth dog.

[M V]

...4. Caste as a 'touch' or superior/inferior concept is pretty much broken. Any casteism of that sort is only limited to libraries of pseudo-intellectuals or confines of walls of real casteist people. [/quote]
Is it really so rosy and limited as stated above? Among how many of the 800 million plus? Even among the educated elite, how many actively look outside their caste as a first resort for alliances in arranged marriages?

[quote]What you and me can't possibly do in even 100 years is the dilution of caste as an identity concept in society. A Thakur, a Brahmin, A Gowda, A Mudaliar, A Patel, A Patil, A SenGupta, A Naidu, A Meena, A Nair etc. can't be wiped out even in 3 generations. They have become identity of India just like Smith, Baker, Fuller, Berger have become in US. Let them be around as a society needs identity. [/quote]
The Smith, Baker etc of the U.S. or Europe are only last names. They were often got by being derived from first names, occupation, place of origin or just personal choice. These would be comparable to Taraporewala, Ludhianvi, Bottlewala, Doodhwala, Sarvepalli kind of last names but not the other caste based ones.

[quote]As long as superior/inferior and untouchablity are removed, caste would be toothless. Every country in the world has some form of sect/class/race based identity. [/quote]
Can the rest of the world's sect/class/race be compared to India's caste based identity? Are those as rigid as the caste system? Are the consequences of being born in a low caste/sect in those as extreme?

Can you give some examples of sect/class/race based systems from other countries?

If a miracle happens and untouchability is removed, can the superior inferior among the touchables go away?

[Desi]

...4. Caste as a 'touch' or superior/inferior concept is pretty much broken. Any casteism of that sort is only limited to libraries of pseudo-intellectuals or confines of walls of real casteist people.

I can see burying of head in sand and /or denying because the abhorrent practice is rooted in Hinduism. I am certain that if the practice was rooted in Islam to the degree it is in Hinduism, the head would have been out of sand.

I am sure that in the following web links, unbiased readers will be able to see fatwas and biased readers will call them exceptions and what have you.

Grandfather charged in blaze that killed 3 - Chicago Tribune

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article364946.ece

Rajasthan couple defy panchayat, prefer death to separation

UP caste panchayat orders death sentence to lovers

Girl marries within caste, killed for honour‎ - 8 hours ago

Inter-caste lovers stoned to death | LazyBuzz News

I think that over time, Hinduism will be reformed and will change. This change will happen inspite of the denials. All the denials do is just stunt the rate of reformation.
The education of the population, the laws and regulations will all help brink about change. There is hope that some of the leaders in Hinduism movement have their heads out of sand.

[bestofall]

if any one wants know the power of caste in our Society . please do search in Hindu classifieds
even for renting property , caste will come to picture.

some time people will ask your Surname , to find out your caste , before then decide to rent the property

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/cadsrc.pl

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[BeeAndButterfly]

There are multiple levels to the hinduism question:
1. Individual
2. Family
3. Society
4. Country

We have to examine the goals at each level. What is desirable, what exists and what can be done to bridge the gap.

Example on the caste issue:
Though classification based on profession happens in all societies, conferring it as a birthright defeats the purpose and encourages degeneration. If a person is a doctor, would we automatically confer a medicine degree to his/her progeny? We would expect the doctors kid also to qualify for the profession and display their ability to practice it ethically. Anyone who wishes to become a temple priest and is willing to go through the rigors to train to be one should be allowed to do so. Malpractice should be punished to maintain the credibility of the system.

Other ideas:
Involve the kids early on.

In the US, they have church based activities at all levels right from day cares to kids bible study groups to teen groups. They have a social support system created through church. People are encouraged to marry from within their own church. Lots of books and resources for kids to understand their own religion.

In India, we used to have some Amar chitra katha as kids but other than that most of it was too metaphysical for a kid, how many parents have read the gita. We need appropriate literature and resources for each stage. Also, elders need to understand the significance of various practices to be able to convey it to their kids.

End discrimination against the girl child
If a culture keeps enforcing the idea that male is superior to female, women will keep distancing themselves gradually. Give equal opportunities to girl child and do not discriminate against her. End dowry.

Create an inclusive environment
Encourage debates on various aspects. Help people understand what it means to be a hindu. Punish the unscrupulous practitioners to withhold the integrity of the dharma.

[madhmurt]

Ramaswamy, thank you for starting this thread. I was thinking in the same lines as you. Here are my 2 cents on how we can reform Hinduism

1) The Seers of Hindu Peethams (like the Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham) should take greater responsibility in educating devotees on what exactly is Hinduism, what is sanatana dharma and the importance of it in our daily life. It doesnt have to stop with the Seers, the famous Swami's who are major pullers of people (may be Ramdev Baba for example) should take responsibility of inculcating the religion, safegaurding the religion, create an awarness of the various attacks that are going on, on Hindus and Hinduism across the world and provide direction.
2) There should be a consolidation (its not an easy task) on what Hinduism is (the fact is that its too vast). Some research needs to go into coming up with a book which includes important aspects of Hinduism from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. Hindus should feel associated with that book. (I dont know how to reach out to Seers to discuss this with them to understand whether its really possible or not, tried to get email contact but couldnt succeed).
3) Priests in temples also have greater reach to people. Rather than only performing Puja's they also should be aware of ways to safe gaurd the religion, provide guidance to people and create greater awareness.
4) Hindus have to be united. Like its said, united we stand, divided we fall. From a religion stand point, we should fight the cause to safegaurd our religious beliefs. I will give you small example, you might have seen the news of banning burqa at school level or college level, we have to learn from our Muslim friends on how they fight about it, it will make it into headlines of all news papers, at the same time our kids who go to Christian schools have so many restrictions (right from what kind of bindi to no mehandi... and punishment if they do so)
5) Hindus should get rid of caste system and untouchability. We should always think about inclusive growth. So called low-level people in the society should have access to temples. We should embarrass everybody. The people who are looked low in our Hindu society are the soft targets for conversion because they are not given due respect, they get tempted to move towards other religion.
6) Parents should teach not only values but about religion as well.
Hope nobody labels me a fundamentalist :-). All I am trying to do is to save my rich culture and heritage. For me my religion is my path to God at the same time I respect all religions and people who are following other religions in this world.

[desi4ever]

[QUOTE]Even among the educated elite, how many actively look outside their caste as a first resort for alliances in arranged marriages?

Why should one consciously look outside one's caste ? Even among white people, a vast majority are particular about their church's denomination! In Islam you have Shia/Sunni/Ahmedia. So why pick on Hindus ? I don't see anything wrong in a person choosing to marry within one's "caste". To me in the present day situation "caste" is more like a group of people with a common set of beliefs and practices.It just makes it easier if you marry within your caste ( one less thing to worry about when you have other issues that comes with marriage !). I'm not saying that people should not marry outside one's caste. I'm just saying marrying within one's caste should neither be prescribed or proscribed!

[M V]

Why should one consciously look outside one's caste ? Even among white people, a vast majority are particular about their church's denomination! In Islam you have Shia/Sunni/Ahmedia. So why pick on Hindus ? I don't see anything wrong in a person choosing to marry within one's "caste". To me in the present day situation "caste" is more like a group of people with a common set of beliefs and practices.It just makes it easier if you marry within your caste ( one less thing to worry about when you have other issues that comes with marriage !). I'm not saying that people should not marry outside one's caste. I'm just saying marrying within one's caste should neither be prescribed or proscribed!

It was not being suggested that people should consciously look outside their caste. There is nothing wrong in choosing to marry within one's caste. Rather a question was asked as to how many do that as a first resort in arranged marriages. The question was in response to point #4 in KirKS' post.

I am not saying that people should or should not marry outside their caste. I also agree that marrying with as much a similar background as possible makes life easier and less unpredictable. I'm just saying that claims that the caste system as a superior/inferior concept is pretty much broken or confined only to pseudo-intellectuals or "real casteist" people does not agree with the fact that own caste is still the first choice for many in marriage.

About 'why pick on Hindus' - one reason could be that the thread is "Reforming Hinduism" and that social consequences of marrying outside caste are not so severe or rampant in other religions as among Hindus.