Quotas And Reservation

[VS007]

Supreme Court stays the OBC quota in an Interim order.
Hoefully its final order would be consistent and throw out this divisive policy.
Merit yes, Caste no.

SC stays 27 per cent OBC quota in IITs, IIMs
29 March 2007

Mumbai: The Supreme Court has stayed the central law providing for 27-per cent reservation for other backward classes (OBCs) in elite educational institutions, including IITs and IIMs.

The court held that the 1931 census could not be a determinative factor for identifying the OBCs for the purpose of providing reservation and the 27 per cent reservation for OBCs in the country's top educational institutions based on the census data won't hold good under the changed circumstances.

"...It is desirable to put on hold the OBCs reservation," a bench comprising Justice Arijit Pasayat and Justice L S Panta observed.

http://www.domain-b.com/economy/general/2007/20070329_Iims.htm

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Quota Opponents Cheer:
Another reader Mohan Kartha also pointed out an interesting trend in Tamil Nadu. ?When I went for admission of my daughter in Class I in a famous convent in Chennai, I found majority of the parents who had come in flashy cars had ration card showing they are Backward Class. Were they that is anybody's guess. In Tamil Nadu, which has the maximum reservation on caste basis, majority of families are taking ration cards by dubious means and proving they are from backward class,?
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/03_2007/quota-opponents-cheer-sc-order-say-justice-at-last-37251.html

[Bobus]

Logically, doesn't the "old 1931 data" defect apply equally to OBC reservations in Govt jobs (which are also based on the same data) or not merely to admissions to "elite" educational institutions?

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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2210455.cms


Ministry of Social Justice has asked states to carry out a census of OBCs in the country, setting the ball rolling to address what has snowballed into a major debate.

The decision came after the Registrar General of India (RGI) turned down the ministry's request for a national survey on the ground that it was not its policy. Had RGI agreed, a caste-based census would have been conducted for the first time after 1931.

The headcount, if acceded to by states, would give the nearest figure of the backward castes. But, the states appear indifferent to the communique sent by the ministry recently.

Claims on OBC numbers have emerged as a major sticking point in the wake of a judicial challenge to the 93rd Constitution amendment, extending OBC quota in higher education. Supreme Court took exception to the Union government deciding upon policies without reliable data.

Sources said social justice ministry wrote to RGI after the parliamentary standing committee on social justice, in May, questioned the lack of data on OBCs, expressing surprise at how huge sums were released on schemes for the welfare of backward classes without any idea of their exact numbers. Chaired by Sumitra Mahajan (BJP), the committee asked the ministry to urge RGI to conduct a survey for the purpose.

While the committee brought out the concerns of the administration over lack of numbers for targeted policy implementation, an NSSO report stirred the pot by pegging the backward population at 34.5%.

The Union government has stood by 52%, as quoted by Mandal Commission, which in turn arrived at the figure by elimination of non-OBC communities in 1931 census, from the total population.

The government then cited the commission's figure to to give 27% quota to OBCs. The principle of proportional representation was not followed as a 50% ceiling on total quantum of reservation was imposed by Supreme Court.

The quantum of OBC share of the total population has proved to be of high political value, since the emergence of identity politics of 1990 in which numbers have dictated the bargain a community can drive in the political sphere.

With Mandal Commission resulting in an OBC consolidation nationwide, the OBC numbers proved a boon as Janata Dal, the platform for OBC agenda, swept away Congress in state after state.

Simultaneously, a certain political correctness has dissuaded governments from going for a decisive identification of OBC strength through a census.

[RRK]

Tamil Nadu govt is calling for one day bandh tomorrow to protest.

All trains, buses, flights in and out of TN is cancelled. No offices, schools.

For a wrong policy, govt is screwing the people.

SC has accepted in principle the quota is ok. It is only questioning the basis for identifying the "class" that needs reservation and also the basis for determination of the %.

Govt can't use 1931 data to support its position. Why not use the census and see the improvements of the policy so far and adjust the casts or classes as such to improve the country further.

India is the only place in the world where you can see the govt supporting bandhs.

[VS007]

What we need is not a census for OBCs alone, but how much of them are rich and need to make way for poor bretheren in their own community. Trickle down economics may work, but never trickle down reservation.

[VS007]

So its not muslims, but christians who are the most backward. Bottomline Indian politicians should extend 15% reservation to each community to complete 100% reservation plus garner 100% of their votes.
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New Delhi: A controversy on who are the most backward religious communities in India may begin again.

The Justice Rajinder Sachar Committee has said that Muslims are the most backward, particularly when it comes to employment opportunities. Another government survey disagrees.

The National Sample Survey Organisation?s (NSSO) data says Christians, the most educated religious community, top the list of the unemployed in the country.
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/03_2007/muslims-arent-most-jobless-survey-37387.html

[ksheer3]

Been watching the TV and reading The Hindu. TV is full of discussions and talking heads incl swamis, MPs vs students. Students who venture on the camera are the elitists who oppose reservation (in premier institutions).
Rabble rousers give interviews protesting the SC stay order.

The chief pandering minister of TN has declared a bandh and has a veiled threat to the coalition govt. All shops in CBE were closed. Wonder how many OBC students could be eductaed with the lost income (due to the bandh)?

What constitutes backwardness anyway?
Income? Opportunity to advance? And why reservations in premier institutions?

Here is an idea for the panderers (Alright -- "populists" if you will) --- help the homeless! Compel every five star hotel to reserve rooms for the homeless!!

Wonder if these "public servants" have ever contributed any of their own money to a good cause? They appear very generous with public funds.

ksheer3

[DoctorJ]

In my humble opinion, this is a very sensitive topic...and I have a very strong opinion supporting complete abolition or ban of reservation of any nature - including that set aside for handicapped people and women. I'd request the members to view my stance in a constructive way instead of being subjective. I'll try my best to restrain myself in indulging in this discussion further as it might hurt those who have taken advantage of the said benefits or are supporters of what I consider to be a unholy and unfair benefit.

In this particular case, I'm positively sure we'll not hear much from the people who are taking advantage of the said benefit - unless of course some radical thinking member were to take the side of the so called downtrodden. I sure hope nobody plays a devil's advocate here. I say this with a certain degree of conviction 'cause I think all educated and knowledgeable people (even those who have taken or are taking advantage) know it is unfair and unjust. In any case, I'd like to buy an "Anticipatory Apology" (just like Anticipatory Bail) in case I end up losing my cool or self control to join this discussion in the near or distant future with my strong opinion.

Thanks for your consideration...

PS: It's not going to help anybody if people were to start taking political, language, and regional sides in the fight for justice - against injustice. So, I'd request members to stop the regional divide and/or mudslinging.

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Invariably it takes a revolution to overcome populist policies. I sure hope we don't need one here... -DJ :cool:

[mysoreHuduga]

anyway coming to the topic...after the last few months that i spent with the govt school kids ... i stronly feel reservations is the only way they can compete with the private school kids. ofcourse any reservation which does not consider the creamy layer is as good no reservation for these poor kids. again this is my personal experience based on what i see everyday in my line of work.

-mH

[dhanu]

In my humble opinion, this is a very sensitive topic...and I have a very strong opinion supporting complete abolition or ban of reservation of any nature - including that set aside for handicapped people and women.

...

I say this with a certain degree of conviction 'cause I think all educated and knowledgeable people (even those who have taken or are taking advantage) know it is unfair and unjust.

...

PS: It's not going to help anybody if people were to start taking political, language, and regional sides in the fight for justice - against injustice. So, I'd request members to stop the regional divide and/or mudslinging.
[/quote]

I suspect that the intention of OP was not to discuss the merits/demerits of reservation but only of the SC judgement. So I think you might have to start a new thread to get comments on your views.

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People getting upset over the judgement and people overly rejoicing over it don't seem to have understood the judgement. All SC is saying that the govt. should first get relevant data before implementing reservation for OBC. I don't see why it is such a big deal.

TN govt. obviously has something to hide if it doesn't want to refresh its stale data.

I think the problem with the political parties is that they will not be able to take the benefit of reservation votes until another year or so until fresh data is generated.

[DoctorJ]

Just so everybody knows...I forced myself to post my thoughts here 'cause I quoted this particular thread else-where on a different topic and felt the need to air my thoughts here to justify and provide more clarity of my position.

Further, I'm a firm believer of the thought which gives due consideration to merit while evaluating each individual's knowledge, experience, ability and other such attributes during any selection process - no matter what position. I probably paint a picture of being a little insensitive when I include handicapped people and women in my discussion - but nobody can deny the fact that everybody's basic needs of "Roti, Kapda Oor Makan" is the same. I don't mind special social security kind of benefits to address the needs of physical and mentally handicapped, orphans and aged people.

I'm dead against the age old caste based system that forced an individual into a certain profession where-in a King's son (a prince) become a King and a Prostitute?s daughter became a Prostitute. As was the case with a Brahmin's child became a Brahmin (no matter what) and a Harijan's child became a Harijan. It's just ridiculous that we are still following the age old system and giving benefits to make-up for age old atrocities or the present day's lazy (ignorant) butts.

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I always prefer to make myself clear before I start my "Mouna Vrath". -DJ :cool: